RE: RE: Re: Interesting...

".....That tearing sound was that particular definition as you tried to stretch it...." Agreed, but if you don't give the Sunshiners something to come back at then all we get is Kebabfart's bleating about cache. However, the Californian brain-drain is not a stretch at all. Whilst it may be too early to start wondering when certain global IT companies might decide to move out of Silly-con Valley to neighbouring or geographically-close-but-not-quite-neighbouring states (happy now?), it would seem logial that they will eventually if California can't provide the people they require.

"....There was also encumbered material in the JDK..." IIRC, the encumbered material in the JDK was largely Sun's own, or owned by non-competing parties whom had no interest in fighting Sun. The core of Slowaris (sorry, it never does tire) is System V UNIX, and Larry has little chance of getting all the players onside on that as some of them have the same code in their proprietary UNIX. For example, I don't expect IBM to be going out of their way to help Larry, and I believe they have rights to some of the code in Slowaris (nope, still not tired!). And whilst Novell have stated "We don't believe there is Unix in Linux", they also said they weren't interested in suing the other UNIX vendors, which kinda hints they think there is material "encumbered" by Novell in commercial UNIX releases, probably including Slowaris (tired? Moi? Never!). Didn't Sun jump to the front of the non-existant queue to pay SCO to "license" UNIX in Slowaris (not done just yet)? I'm sure that wasn't just because they wanted to see Linux crushed, or are you telling me they really knew there was no need to license and they just did want to fund SCO to kill Linux (<insert faux shock here>)? Some of us Linux users have long memories (and Google cache to back them up when alcohol has erased brain cells).

"....And if so, the politicians will be up against Larry...." Yes, and we all know Larry is the new knight-In-shining-white-armour that replaced Steve Jobs as the last enterpreneur-of-suitable-innovative-mysticism-ready-to-save-Sun-unchanged-and-stroke-sunshiner's-egos, bla-bla-bla, but even SuperLarry and his UberBankAccount have their limits. Even if he did get Novell onside by purchase, he'd still have to deal with IBM, and I really don't think even his ego is big enough for that, especially as he seems to have spent the last quarter antagonising IBM. Now, Larry may be loud, but I happen to think he is a very smart man, and I don't think he'd be opening an IBM charm offensive in such a manner, so it looks like he really doesn't have that in mind.

"....If you're going to lash out and put someone in their place, at least try and spell the chosen insult correctly...." Well, it was more laughing-at rather than lashing-out-at. Are we a wee bit sensitive? Apologies for my spelling, but my boss till doesn't think I require a secretary to do my edits. But, TBH, even in the old days when you had to mess about linking files and changing permissions, Oracle installations weren't exactly brain surgery, which is one of the reasons Oracle became the DB of choice. Nowadays it's even easier, so, IMO, the original poster must be thick (<= much easier to spell!).

".....someone with a chip on their shoulder about Sun, who foams at the mouth at the very mention of the organisation." More of a falls-of-the-chair-laughing-at, and mainly directed at the Sunshiners and their blinkered views. I did know a number of very intelligent and skilled people that used to work at Guillemont Park, some whom would even hold their hands up and admit to being my friends, but the truth is most of them have left Sun for pastures greener a while ago (shockingly, one of them even went to Microsoft!!!!). My "chip" is not a Sun in general issue, it's more to do with the comic attitude of the Sunshiners (not Sun employees) that have hitched their careers to the Sun wagon and rode it through the good times, happy in their herd-mentality and roughshod over anyone with a conflicting view, but now find it so hard to admit they may have been wrong. Why shouldn't we have a good laugh at their expense, especially as they are so easy to provoke? After all, pretty much all they have left is a sense of humour, and if they're losing that.....

/Slowaris - nah, it's got too good a ring to it to drop just yet!

RE: Re: Interesting...

"I know you Sunshiners think you're the only people qualified to have any thoughts on Sun at all, and that us customers should just shut up and listen to your "superior knowledge", but that kind of attitude is one of the factors that got Sun canned. Don't you think it's about time you learned to listen a little? True, my posts are more than a tad sarcastic, but then you guys are such an easy target!"

I don't work at Sun and although I've used Sun kit, it's been a long time since I did so. Some of it was reasonable, if pricey, some of it was obviously flawed. Not everyone who sees merit in Sun's stuff has a relationship with Sun - it's not a George W. Bush world, you know?

"Not directly neighbouring, but here in the UK the definition of neighbour is someone that is close by, not neccessarily next door. Did you ever wonder why an area called a "neighbourhood" didn't just consist of three houses?"

That tearing sound was that particular definition as you tried to stretch it to fit geography and a bunch of other domains.

"They can't. There is too much copyrighted material in Slowaris, which is why even the less-capable OpenSlowaris has to be licensed under the CDDL fudge."

Erm, there's "copyrighted material" in virtually everything, apart from explicitly public domain stuff. What you presumably meant was that there's "encumbered material" in Solaris: stuff they can't relicense, perhaps because they don't own it. (That "Slowaris" joke never tires, does it?) There was also encumbered material in the JDK, but they got there in the end, so I'm not completely convinced that it isn't a matter of politics. And if so, the politicians will be up against Larry, so the situation isn't static by any means.

"And Oracle DB or RAC installs - onto hp-ux, Red Hat or Windows at least - don't seem that hard, so all I can come up with is that you must be incompetant."

If you're going to lash out and put someone in their place, at least try and spell the chosen insult correctly, even though it probably won't change the impression we're getting of someone with a chip on their shoulder about Sun, who foams at the mouth at the very mention of the organisation.

RE: @Matt RE: Re: Interesting...

RE: zvonr

".....It is quite simple what Oracle will do with Solaris, it will position it as the high end, reliable, highperformance UNIX. They will charge more for Solaris than for Unbreakable Linux, Unbreakable Linux will be kept to undercut Redhat pricing...." Slight problem for the Sunshiners, then - that was exactly the plan Sun used to have for Slowaris. Sun's plan was SPARC-Slowaris for the "high-end" at a nice price, and use "free" Slowaris on x64 to fight Linux. It didn't work. So if Larry's plan is effectively the same he's just destined to repeat the failings of Sun.

"...This is preety much how IBM positions AIX or HP positions HPUX...." Close, but no cigar. You'll notice that hp and IBM didn't waste time trying to fight the Linux juggernaut, instead they used it to kill Sun. If Larry goes from general Linux support to war with the Linux community then he will lose, regardless of how tightly he ties Oracle DB or other products to Slowaris or Oracle Linux. Despite the interesting poll results he quotes, I personally don't know any company in the UK that uses Oracle Linux, but I know plenty (including mine) that use Red Hat. Sure, I don't know every company in the UK, but I suspect I know people that work in IT in a largish wedge of the corporations Larry will want to target, and Sun already failed in.

"...Oracle is a bussiness, it is not a charitable organization." You may want to keep that in mind when you Sunshiners start prattling on about how Larry is just going to take the old Sun and "make it better" - he can't. He will have to chop large chunks of deadwood to get it into shape, and Rock was just the start.

RE: AC

"It wouldn't be an article about Sun without a Matt Bryant commentary...." I know you Sunshiners think you're the only people qualified to have any thoughts on Sun at all, and that us customers should just shut up and listen to your "superior knowledge", but that kind of attitude is one of the factors that got Sun canned. Don't you think it's about time you learned to listen a little? True, my posts are more than a tad sarcastic, but then you guys are such an easy target!

"....Texas is a neighbouring state to California now, is it?...." Not directly neighbouring, but here in the UK the definition of neighbour is someone that is close by, not neccessarily next door. Did you ever wonder why an area called a "neighbourhood" didn't just consist of three houses? Of course, I notice that you don't deny the brain-drain from California, a serious economic factor that is affecting Sillicon Valley. If that is the best critique of my post you can do then we really do need some new Sunshiners, the old ones are just getting more and more pathetic.

"....Certainly it would be interesting if Sun did make Solaris available under a GPL-compatible licence...." They can't. There is too much copyrighted material in Slowaris, which is why even the less-capable OpenSlowaris has to be licensed under the CDDL fudge.

"....Go to Larry's people for support on software written by someone else? Laughable!...." You're forgetting, that's what Sun tried with their own Linux support. However, I have used Oracle support for RAC on Rad Hat and found them very good, so maybe Larry's people aren't as bad as the old Sun "support" for Linux (which just seems to have consisted of asking why users didn't switch to Slowaris). And Oracle DB or RAC installs - onto hp-ux, Red Hat or Windows at least - don't seem that hard, so all I can come up with is that you must be incompetant.

/SP&L