Not really worth reporting on what shows Sun will be at as they are going bankrupt.

Bankrupt? You're a moron. Sun has 3Billion in cash and are still generating cash. You sound like a babbling drunkard AC. Would a company that is going bankrupt be buying companies (see Q-Layer).

It is quite interesting to see so many negative comments posted to anything related to Sun. Where is this hate coming From?

You don't like Sun? Fine, use whatever os/hardware the competition has to offer.

My advice, find a partner and GET LAID!!!

"Would a company that is going bankrupt be buying companies (see Q-Layer)."

Maybe. Micron bought Gateway's business division just over a year ago, they are broke now. It does happen.

(The basic fact is you're right though, Sun's not as big as they had been in the dot-com boom, but they have cash on hand, they're making cash, and they didn't do any of those stupid "leveraged" arrangements some companies did that screwed them so bad.)

As for Ubuntu Expo.. I'm not too surprised. I mean, the economy and all that will not help. But even not counting that, I'm way into Ubuntu but I just don't think I'd go to an expo for it, unless it was held right in town. Some Windows users get a bit antsy to go to expos and see what's supposed to be coming out, I think due to the long product cycles. Apple has shorter product cycles, but have Steve Jobs and his Reality Distortion Field (for now...) to keep them all excited to go to expos. Ubuntu has neither.. new versions come out at 6 month intervals, so changed from one version to the next are much more incremental.. and Shuttlesworth is cool but he doesn't have the Distortional abilities of Jobs.

Well said Matt Bryant above, Sun aren't disappearing anytime soon.

As for the conferences and flights etc, weren't Sun supposed to replacing and augmenting this stuff with Second Life and Wonderland anyhow?

https://lg3d-wonderland.dev.java.net/

<Snip>Sun's largest share holder - Southeastern Asset Management - has secured two new independent directors on Sun's board as part of a move to "realize the company's true economic value."<Snip>

I would just like to take time to inform you peons that have not yet grasped the Greatness of My Plan that my allowing Southeastern Asset Management the honour of contributing to My Company is being misconstrued by some less-knowledgeable journalists. I have indeed invited two of their number to join My Board in basking in My Proximity and the Splendour of My Ponytail. Said muck-raking wannabe-journos have spread vile lies and innuendo that SAM's statement of "realize the company's true economic value" is a prelude to an asset-stripping venture, which is plainly untrue as they - like everyone else given the Great Fortune to meet me - are in rightful and respectful awe of my every utterence.

Bow down before Me, dogs!

Yours Greatly,

Jonathan I Schwartz.

"Bankrupt? You're a moron. Sun has 3Billion in cash and are still generating cash...." Sorry to keep pointing out the truth to you blinkered individuals aka Sunshiners, but Sun is losing money every quarter. It is not making money, the reserve cash is being spent, and the stock value is depreciating daily. So it is quite correct for the AC to suggest that Sun is going bankrupt, though it is not there yet. But, patience, give Ponytail a little more time, and delisting will open the doors for the receivers.

"....You sound like a babbling drunkard AC...." And simply tossing around insults makes you sound like a blind idiot. I hope you have invested heavily in Sun shares as you really sound like the kind of fool that should be parted from their money.

"....Would a company that is going bankrupt be buying companies (see Q-Layer)." Well, if you are desperately looking for a way of climbing out the hole then I suppose you might carry on making buys in an attempt to flesh out a longterm cloud strategy. Of course, with the negative profits results, the decreasing market cap and the dwindling reserves, there is less and less time for Ponytail to integrate new buys before he will be forced to sell them off. And with the market still looking at cloud as a future purchase rather than something to bring in money for Sun now, it looks like more money out with no foreseeable return for many years. At least the $4.1bn wasted on StorageTek had some immediate return in actual products ready to go, but Q-layer seems to offer no immediate return and just more expense. The point will come soon where Sun will have to make a choice between continuing to fund software or hardware products, and something will either have to be dropped or sold to come even close to balancing the books. Of course, this is the real message behind Southern Asset Management's "realize the company's true economic value" quote. SAM are making a call to all the asset strippers out there - roll on up, the sale starts soon!

"...weren't Sun supposed to replacing and augmenting this stuff with Second Life and Wonderland anyhow?..." And what more natural way for Sun to sell vapourware than via Sadville! With any luck, some hacker will fill the online event with flying Ponytails.

Haven't these people heard of video conferencing? Even teleconferencing? Sheesh. Good products, but their marketing/financial people really need a good 5-lb hammer upside the head to crack some of that damn rock. Where are they hiring these people, Dilbert world?

..might be ones who have suffered ZFS-caused kernelspace panics over the last year, or some of the interesting multipath fiber screwups.. You know, the people who remember using Solaris when it used to be more stable than the freenixes, rather than less.

Maybe this could also include people who are yet to become Sun users, who tried to use their (amazingly slow java-driven) website, painfully slogging their way through to a machine which meets their requirements, and then actually tried to buy one- only to find that the machine that seems to fit perfectly is discontinued, just the website hasn't been kept up to date (good job it's all dynamic and java-based, eh?).

It could also potentially be the people who still nurse a grudge about Sun's murky dealings with Microsoft in the past WRT to killing linux (before they reformed and became part of The Justice League, and all-round crime fighters).

I don't know. I don't have a grudge against Sun- I have a few of their machines, but am pretty ambivalent about them in general. However, it's easy to understand why people might be getting sick of them now, despite their past glories.

Ponytail would rather do canned webcasts then answer tough questions

1) Do you really think your OSS strategy is the best one for your shareholders?

2) How long do you think the new board with two SE directors will take to fire you?

3) Are you going to be doing another April Fools Joke at the end of March for youtube while you should be closing the quarter?

4) How long do you think you can keep the news that all the ROCK people have been moved to NiagaraIII that were no RIF'd?

A: Yes, compared to any other method of promoting our value and generating wealth for the company and the shareholders.

Like democracy, OSS is a bad way of generating money except for all the others.

Matt, you are the blackest kettle I've ever seen.

1. You scream about Sun canceling US-V, but Intel has canceled at least two Itanium chips that I

can think of.

2. You froth at the mouth about Rock being late, yet Tukwila is at last count two years late and

many of the promised features missing.

3. You comment on "name calling", yet you resort to "simply tossing around insults" as a matter

of course. Here are some of the "insults" that you used in just this one article:

- Sunshiners

- Blind idiot

- Fool

These are just the ones in this one post from you. You resort to "simply tossing around

insults" in most of your posts so based upon your definition this makes you a "blind idiot".

A quick search on Sun and looking at your posts on all things Sun, I quickly find the following

"tossing around insults" from you Matt:

- Slowaris

- stupid

- smelly brown stuff

Also, since I know that you make money from doing research into Sun as a HP Marketing Droid, I must clarify a few points for you so you can go back to your bosses with some facts:

1. Sun is the No 1 Unix vendor with more that 46% of the market, which is why there are double

the number of applications on Solaris than HPUX (heck, there are more Apps on AIX than

HPUX). Note:

2. Solaris is the only Unix to grow market share last quarter, while HPUX stayed flat and AIX lost

share. Yes, yes, I know HPUX grew in the High-End, but I'm talking about total Unix, not just

one niche. Besides, HPUX mostly grew from cannibalizing their own PA-RISC/Alpha/MIPS

install base.

3. Look at Sun's Balance sheet. Just because Sun loses money on a GAAP basis, does not

mean that they are not generating cash. Their cash increased to $3.3 Billion and debt is almost

non-existent. All of the information is available on Suns Shareholder site.

Again, how can they go bankrupt with little to no debt and generating cash?

You must not make much money as a HP Marketing Droid, since you obviously don't do your research very well... Of course you are very good at FUD, so perhaps that is where you earn your money...

and it's not pretty...

SPARC architecture is dead. SUN is looking to hire project leads to follow AMD by designing it's own X86-clone...

new jobs posted at SUN:

PRINCIPAL ENGINEER DP 7 req. #561916

Own and accountable for microarchitecture definition that meets performance, cost, functionality, and delivery to schedule of an advanced x86 microprocessor.

PRINCIPAL ENGINEER DP 8 req. #561919

Proven track record in working through all phases of product development leading advanced server class x86 microarchitecture, design, verification, and productization for microprocessor design groups. Recognized as an x86 design expert in XT and Microelectronics Groups and is sought out and engaged on difficult design, and productization situations.

PRINCIPAL ENGINEER, SOC ARCHITECT req. #561350

Intimate understanding of PC architecture, including north and south bridge, high performance memory controllers, cache coherency, x-bar switches are required. Logic design of previous SoCs and/or chip sets as an architect is high desirable.

I an only say I wish it weren't true, but the above job listings clearly pinpoint SUN's new direction as it hopes to move ahead.

Those are all jobs that any company that builds and sells X86 servers would post. I'm stretching to see the same tea leaves that you are seeing...

Keep up, Bill, no-one's mentioned UltraSPANC'd V for weeks! I know most Sunshiners are living in the past but you'll need to try a bit harder to stay abreast of the conversation. Anyway, let's try and bring you up to date - this thread is about how Sun are going bankrupt, nothing about how Sun had the late USV all taped out before they saw sense and canned it, and how that sounds just like the situation with Rock. No, this thread is all about how Ponytail is still spending money on cloud purchases whilst not actually making any profits, and how far Ponytail has still to go before the Southern Asset Management board members start the fire sale.

In a way I kinda hope it comforts you to cling to the belief that I work for hp, it must be much easier for you than facing up to reality. But a little thearapy would probably do you good, so just to keep your teeth grinding, I'm just going to have to remind you that high-end is where the money's at, and as teh resukts show, Sun ain't there.....

Matt, let me learn ya' on basic reading skills. My post was about your inability to reason and your complete and total hypocrisy. I think, if you read closely, or at least with the level of a high school freshman, that my post did this most clearly. To make it more clear for you, a hypocrite is defined as:

1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.

2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

"Matt, let me learn ya' on basic reading skills...." Thanks for your kind offer, Bill, (though I suspect your choice of reading material is restricted to Sun sales brochures) but on the evidence of your posts you can rest assured I have been taught by far more capable teachers than yourself, both in English and computing.

"....My post was about your inability to reason and your complete and total hypocrisy...." Ah, the ol' Sunshiner he-doesn't-agree-with-me-therefore-he-is-an-idiot argument. If you had paused to consider my posts you would have noted I do reason all my arguments and supply information to support their logic, so the first part of your statement is obviously wrong. The second part - that I am a hypocrite - is interesting. Option 1 in your definition implies some form of religious angle, which is funny as I am quite agnostic. I'm guessing you thought it was a correct definition due to your being a fully-paid-up member of The Cult of the Sunshiners and therefore all IT peeps can be thought of as either The Faithful or the heretics? Sorry, I deal in facts, not fairytales, which is why neither the bible nor Ponytail gets my support. Option 2 is even funnier - this implies I am living the reverse of what I state, that I must somehow be a secret Sunshiner, and that I have some dastardly motive for bashing Sun when in reality I love them!?!?!? OK, please go take some more medication and think that one through.....

But to get back to the "basic reading skills" bit - your post opened with a squeal about my previously mentioning UltraSPANCd V's demise and Rock being late - "....You scream about Sun canceling US-V...You froth at the mouth about Rock being late..." - when I had not mentioned either in this thread at all. I really think you need to swot up on the "basic reading skills" a bit more before you come back and lecture the rest of us. Or was this a lame attempt to deflect the discussion away from Sun's perilous financial state onto ground you feel you are better prepared to defend? Simply ignoring the position Sun is in isn’t going to work, and wishing the stock markets away won’t let Sun survive. I’d enjoy hearing your views on Goldman Sachs rating Sun as a sell stock, but only for the comedy value.

Nice critical thinking Matt... You really showed him...

Matt, Matt, Matt,

"I’d enjoy hearing your views on Goldman Sachs rating Sun as a sell stock, but only for the comedy value."

Give me a break. Now you're quoting Goldman Sachs? You've really sunk low... Of course, I bet you would ignore the other "buy" signals from other analysts. How about the fact that Sanford C. Bernstein & Co. raised Sun's target price to $7 (from the then current $4)? How about the fact that Illuminata is singing Sun's praises? Oh yeah, you only rely on El Reg and HP's FUD site for your Sun information, right?

Of course all analysts are full of hot air, but you're the one that actually takes them seriously Matt.

Go find a mirror, point at the image in it, and then start laughing Matt...

Dear Bill the deluded,

"....Now you're quoting Goldman Sachs?..." You shouldn't worry about me quoting them, but about CIOs, FDs and the like - they actually put quite a bit of store in what Goldman Sachs have to say. I actually heard it from a member of our senior management before I saw the news online, and that person is not the type to read techie websites, he's more into the Wall Street Journal and FT. Which kinda sums up Sun's problem - there are plenty of you Sunshiners at the techie level grimly holding on, but Sun have lost mindshare in the mid-level and above, and those are the people with the buying power. You can make small Sun purchases of low-end kit, but the big projects with high-end servers are going to other vendors like hp because the people with power don't think Sun can do the job.

"....Oh yeah, you only rely on El Reg...." Well, if you're that upset with The Reg why do you bother reading it? Please feel free to go spend your time at whatever Sunshiner site takes your fancy, where no-one will ever disagree with you. I'm sure you won't be missed.

"....Of course all analysts are full of hot air..." Erm, didn't you just try and defend your beloved Sun by quoting the analysts at Sanford C. Bernstein & Co.? Lol, you're so funny, I almost think you should give up on IT and go into comedy!

"....Go find a mirror, point at the image in it, and then start laughing Matt..." Sorry, too busy laughing at Sun's market cap for that! $2.93bn - less than the $3bn cash in the bank! Which means the market actually values the Sun business as a $700k negative. Maybe Ponytail has been spending too long in Sadville?

OK. Now hell has frozen over. I actually agree with something that Matty has to say. I tend to ignore Matty's technical arguments as they are based in a HP fanboism that you cannot assuage. In this case, however, I think he has a point:

"there are plenty of you Sunshiners at the techie level grimly holding on, but Sun have lost mindshare in the mid-level and above, and those are the people with the buying power."

I used to laugh at the higher ups saying that Sun was a workstation company, and then they were the same ones that later called Sun a tier 1 server vendor. What changed? Nothing, just their minds. That's the point really... The higher ups make decisions based upon where they perceive the market going. I can't say I blame them in this regard, since you have to make decisions based upon the longevity of the solution. However, it doesn't take much for that mind set to change the other direction.

Sun's technology is as good if not better than ever. All they need is one solution to catch and then the mind set changes. OpenSolaris - regardless of what Matty's opinion - is catching on. The Sun Storage 7000 is getting rave reviews from every major journal and it beats all the other comparable platforms on price. Sun makes twice as much revenue on software as RedHat, yet RedHat is seen as a power... No sour grapes, I'm just trying to make the point that not all opinions are based in reality. Matty's constant rants against Sun are a case in point.

Gosh, Bill, if you actually admit somethings wrong the rest of the Sunshiners will excommunicate you! Maybe there's hope for you yet. No hope for OpenSlowaris though, as it is not catching on anywhere other than Sun shops where it is being used to replace old SPARC gear, thus costing Sun in lost SPARC upgrades. And as for the Sun Storage 7000, I haven't seen any "rave reviews" and I peruse quite a few tech journals and websites. Just because Sun flatters itself in Sunshiner haunts, it doesn't mean it's making an impression anywhere in the rest of the tech community. The proof of this is Sun is still a minor player in the storage market, and the last I saw it wasn't gaining marketshare.

And whilst you say Red Hat makes less money from software, they do it with a lot less staff and a lot less expense and turn a profit. Sun doesn't turn profits, it hasn't managed four straight quarters in the black for years.