*You* think you have a backup copy. The storage array knows different. Scary....

...what Data Domain have been flogging for the last 4 years or so. DeDupe heads on cheap and dirty HDS/EMC storage bins, store unique byte-level patterns, record the pattern pointers in an index.

Nothing new to see here, move along...

I have written all the 2 to the 64th data patterns to ROM, then I will use simple 64 bit pointers to that data, therefore all of your data can be represented in a single ROM, with only pointers to that data being stored, essentially all of your data will be stored in a single 2 to the 64th bit chunk or ROM with absolutely no duplication, therefore you can never loose any of your actual data. The pointers might be tricky to rebuild, so we will back them up to tape, and store them off site. Now where is that patent application.

ASIS is VERY different from Data Domain. Since NetApp's gateway can sit in front of EMC, HDS, IBM and HP disk (since when is EMC/HDS 'cheap and dirty disk????)... AS PRIMARY DISK then there is a real deduplication advantage.

Data Domain dedupes ONLY backup data and usually to their own disk (yes they sell a gateway, but just try and buy one... you'd have better luck selling your Lehman stock). Data Domain is a one trick pony. Once people wise up that deduping your primary storage eliminates the need to dedupe your backup data, they'll be a bust.

Riverbed looks like a 'me too' product... we'll have to wait to see the specs

"ASIS is VERY different from Data Domain. Since NetApp's gateway can sit in front of EMC, HDS, IBM and HP disk (since when is EMC/HDS 'cheap and dirty disk????)... AS PRIMARY DISK then there is a real deduplication advantage."

A couple of points, firstly you must buy into the Netapp filesystem, essentially making your array a slave to Netapp's NAS implementation. Just because Netapp are pitching this as a supported solution, I don't see any of the other vendors clamouring to sign joint support agreements around this. Who carries the can if it all goes tits up.

"Once people wise up that deduping your primary storage eliminates the need to dedupe your backup data, they'll be a bust."

This only works for certain usage cases and certain backup environments which also potentially effects the granularity of restore. In addition the Jury is definately still very much out on whether deduping both primary and secondary copies is such a good idea.

>"A couple of points, firstly you must buy into the Netapp filesystem, essentially making your array a slave to Netapp's NAS implementation."

Yes, of course... and the vendors who only perform the disk functions whine about this because they want to control the WHOLE environment and resist any open storage platforms. It's a weak argument if the configuration meets or exceeds the end-user expectations.

>"Just because Netapp are pitching this as a supported solution, I don't see any of the other vendors clamouring to sign joint support agreements around this. Who carries the can if it all goes tits up."

Yes, of course... why would EMC certify NetApp as a gateway when EMC wants to own your whole environment and make you buy just EMC? In an open environment, the end-user has to exercise some authority over the role each vendor's piece plays in their environment. If EMC (or any vendor) balks at just being disk to a NetAp gateway, the end-user needs to walk away from EMC and work with a vendor that will cooperate... and trust me... EMC will cooperate if they think they are out of the solution.

>"This only works for certain usage cases"

Give me a scenario where it doesn't work.

The main point here is that the author as well as Riverbed and the quoted SVP have not done their homework. NetApp supports deduplication on primary as well as backup and archive, and has done so for a very long time. Recently NetApp was recognized by Dave Russell (Research VP at Gartner) as the market leader in data deduplication, bar none. Data ONTAP provides this capability at the volume level (turned on, turned off, scheduled) for free. Through using the NetApp V-Series, non-NetApp arrays can now be deduplicated in the primary environment as well (as pointed out by others above).

So what is the news here?

Jim S. (yes I work at NetApp)

Give me a scenario where it doesn't work.

If you want to use industry standard backup tools for something like a database against a LUN rather than an NDMP dump :-)