Not used Java for over a year (when it was whoohooo ejb 3.0 is here, another change!)

So I wonder, do the Likes of Netbeans and Eclipses rival Microsoft's Expression Studio and Adobe's CS3 Creative Suit for designers?

While Netbeans has to be my favourite IDE (I'm currently having to use Rad Studio :( ) it was always a good coder's IDE, rather than designing, wheather it be making CSS or Swing interfaces.

"It arguably took Swing ten years to become a viable toolkit for creating smart, responsive User Interfaces (UIs). Java Server Faces (JSF) may be reaching an acceptable level of maturity now, but there are very few devotees left to notice."

That sounds wrong. Is the second phrase meant as development of the first? JSF (vintage 2004) has nothing to do with Swing as the former is a technology for building web applications and the latter an old-school technology for building "local" GUI frontends.

If the two phrases are indeed unrelated, then where have the (presumably JSF) devotees gone to? I would like to think that the latest Java-related frameworks are more or less based on JSF and extensions thereof. Are the devotees all aboard the Ruby-on-Rails train?

With 5 billion Java devices on the planet today, not sure its worth writing FX off...

Yes Sun may be slow, its always the problem for an engineering company who won't launch pre-beta sw as FCS

Yes, not using XML is a brave choice, and it's the right one. XML contributes to the current perception of java getting bloated. Your example shows how much more readable and concise at the same time is the non-XML declaration than the XML one. Why using XML just because is (ab)used everywhere else? It is time now to start scrapping XML from where it is not appropriate at all.

"It arguably took Swing ten years to become a viable toolkit for creating smart, responsive User Interfaces (UIs). Java Server Faces (JSF) may be reaching an acceptable level of maturity now, but there are very few devotees left to notice."

It's talking about two different GUI libraries for java. One for desktop rich clients and one for web apps.

The idea that JSF is somehow dead is an odd one though, it seems to be very much alive and gaining in popularity as far as I've seen in the marketplace.

On the other hand, I've never seen an advert for someone skilled in swing.

If this runs client-side on the JVM, then forget it - X people may have Java installed in some form, but most IE users certainly well don't anymore, and JVM integration with Firefox and IE really does suck, constantly crashing or causing the broswer to freeze.

Also if they're only going to support a Java backend, then they're shotting themselves in the foot.

I do feel sorry for Java, its a nice language, just a shame the runtime enviroment is dam poor.

It seems to be current fashion to bash JavaFX, the damn toolkit isn't even out yet!

Give Sun a fair chance on this technology, everyone is raving about Flex, Ajax, Ms.Not, while bashing Sun for trying to keep Java & the JRE fresh & current.

For those of you who are bashing it because it runs in the JRE, PAY ATTENTION! Part of JavaFX is a new plugin & JRE version that solves the problems with the old plugin. (Fast Startup, Better Browser integration, Video).

It's asinine that people & writers are reviewing JavaFX without even understanding what it really represents.

As far as stability & platform, The Adobe Flash plugin locks my browser up 4 or 5 times a day on Linux & 1 or 2 times on my Windows machine, how is this any better than the current Java plugin?

The Java platform is also a much stronger platform than Flash or .Net, with a much better VM and true first class multi platform support (something people forget with .Net).

As far as XML, I agree that Sun's decision to use a declarative, statically typed language instead of XML was the right one, much more readable and easier to maintain. If people really want XML it would be trivial to write an XML to JavaFX translator & contribute to it, FX is after all Open Source.

I'm no Sun fanboy, but FX with the new JRE is an honest attempt buy Sun to fix mistakes that were made with Java in the past, and Sun should be congratulated for finally making Java Desktop a reality.

I'll be very interested in seeing if the folk @ Servoy integrate this into version 5.

There is a new Java JRE/browser plugin coming which solves all the traditional deployment issues of applets - speed, download ease/size etc. The install process/time will be similar to that of flash.

JavaFX will be usable once this plugin is available, and it will also make applets not based on JavaFX a viable alternative again. Too bad that so many people who suck tried abusing applets in the old days, but combined with JavaFX and the new plugin, java in the browser will rule again :)

Check out the new plugin here:

http://java.sun.com/developer/technicalArticles/javase/java6u10/index.html#plugin

We have been working with the language exclusively and collaborating with the JavaFX team for several months. We've found that Sun is serious about their commitment to the language and to the developer community.

I think people will be pleasantly surprised at the depth of the language, the development tools and level support they will receive.

JavaFX coupled with Java 6u10 are game changing... or should I say playing field rearranging technologies.

Someone said "quit complaining, they haven't even released a toolkit yet!"

Bah! Sun announced this 13 months ago. I've heard more hype for JavaFX then any of the other RIA engines, all which have toolkits, and most with IDEs, today.

Why wait for them? End of 2008? We'll have Flex 4.0 and Silverlight 3 betas by then.

As for how it performs. An anonymous source at Sun had this to say: "no comment" (okay I made that up).

The only thing we have to go off of right now is bubble mark:

http://www.bubblemark.com

Theres a product out there called a Pojo Application Server

Its Java and it makes flex look a little silly.

Sun doesnt talk about it, because they didnt make it, and there is another little problem, it also makes EJB servers look a little silly.

It murders Flex. If Java had decent animation, it would give flash a good go as well.

This product is so powerful, it actually threatens the browser, thats how good it is.

Google for Pojo Application Server and you'll find the webs best kept secret.

JavaFX wont beat Adobe, but this will.

too much CPU and memories resources being suck up by all java written applications. Sun keeps telling us will be improve but instead, the newer releases the more CPU power required. Adobe is doing the right thing keep pressure Sun take it more seriously or bust.

I'd rather watch Sun stumble around in public trying to get consensus as to what works for everybody than have it sprung on the world by Adobe or Microsoft with hooks that only they know or can monetize.

Closed source proprietary development in the case of something that is intended for wide use across many devices and environments is surely not what we need.

-Concerned