That says: "Live Free or Die" (it is the state motto). Being as they are one of the renegade states, they might have something. Me, I'm in California, and might see what microwave ovens do to the nasty chip they might put in.

Many options!

As a 59 year old WASC, I only hope I am dead & cold by the time these "1984" regimes have full control...

The only proof I need that the eVoting machines were fully cracked the the rightwing nuts is that bushie was "reelected" in 2004.

Take heart my American chums, the British ID card is supposed to be rolled-out in the next year or two, and we're no nearer now than we ever were because it's nightmarishly complicated in practice. I'm not really sure that identity, real or otherwise, matters to someone wanting to blow-up (say) an airliner with themselves in it; but it's remarkable how slow the authorities are to comprehend this. I would nevertheless urge you all to resist and resist with vigour.

Looks like the time for American Revolution 2.0 is drawing neigh. The problem is, I don't think this lot of bloody tossers has the backbone for it anymore. The few of us that still care about little things like Freedom and Liberty will probably be quickly subdued and shipped off to Guantanamo. :-(

Just today (March 24) our legislature rejected joining REal ID by refusing to allow DMV to create Real ID Driver's Licenses.

So add us to that list of refuseniks!

Happy up here enjoying our personal freedoms.

John

North Pole, AK

The problem is the data sprunging happening in the background, not to mention the lack of security looming over said data.

If a string of government agencies would actually do the jobs required, RealID would not be necessary to control illegal immigration and terrorism.

Paris, sprunging for information.

>>One can only imagine the outcry at airports if Californians were forced to endure a unique set of bizarre screening rituals.<<

What, MORE? At LAX there is already tests of queue toleration, being shouted at thresholds, rudeness tests, crap food endurance, dirty terminal syndrome, shoe inspection, bag poking, body scanning, and the intensive "Why the F*** were you here anyway ?" oral examination.

From experiments on expired bank cards, 3 seconds in a 650W oven will give visible blistering around the chip area. At 2 seconds the plastic cover will raise slightly but is not obvious.

I suspect that a contactless (RFID) card will absorb more energy & require less exposure to kill it but I haven't had a chance to play with one, yet.

Nick.

...of the level of "state" control envisioned in Half-Life 2 when I read all this ID card bumpf

Well done to the holdout states in this matter. I'm sure the people who wrote the US constitution specifically to restrict the power of government over the people would be proud of you for standing up to the wannabee police state forming in Washington DC.

I like the idea that federal officials had "painted themselves in a corner."

Were they all in the same corner painting themselves, I wonder, in some great departmental body-art extravaganza?

Or did they each find a separate, private corner in which to paint themselves?

We should be told.

Paris, because she can paint herself in any of my corners.

"Looks like the time for American Revolution 2.0 is drawing neigh. The problem is, I don't think this lot of bloody tossers has the backbone for it anymore.The few of us that still care about little things like Freedom and Liberty will probably be quickly subdued and shipped off to Guantanamo. :-( ..... By Phillip Rhodes Posted Tuesday 25th March 2008 04:22 GMT

Only in the pathetic dreams of bloody tossers, Philip. There is a heck of a lot more going on in the TEMPESTuously Emanative Background Radiation/InterDependently dDeep Underground Movement than is Currently being disclosed ....... but that is ITs Stealthy Virtue to PoP into the ForeFront of Consciousness whenever IT has indomitable Support for Control of Power in Command and Control/Commend 42 Control Systems.

And how very bizarre that RealID is opposed in preference to hiding in any number of IDs which are not connected together. A Shrink would have a field day with that patient/head case.

"I'm not really sure that identity, real or otherwise, matters to someone wanting to blow-up (say) an airliner with themselves in it; but it's remarkable how slow the authorities are to comprehend this. I would nevertheless urge you all to resist and resist with vigour." .....By Richard Gray Posted Tuesday 25th March 2008 02:26 GMT

It probably matters more than just a little to everyone else though, Richard, but it's remarkable how slow the authorities are to comprehend this/take IT to Heart ...... but hey, I can fully appreciate that being someone else, and doing something you maybe shouldn't be doing or wouldn't be doing as yourself for yourself, is pretty attractive to a loser.

An honest person has nothing to fear ...no matter what they are doing.

More ID? Universal ID? What's the point? If someone wants to cause harm to another they don't need proof of who they are to do it. You only need proof of who you are to prove that you didn't do something. Which is my point with laws/enforcement, they only punish people after a crime has been committed, they don't prevent crime.

"An honest person has nothing to fear ...no matter what they are doing" seyz the Martian from afar.

An attitude like like is the last bastion of the incompetent, willing to give away their freedom for a little safety, and ending up with neither freedom nor safety. No wonder the Martians never evolved beyond bacteria

You cannot even structure a proper sentence. You are a moron, sorry if that upsets you. Hey, unless you really are from Mars? are you? If you could just translate your illegible drivel maybe I could make sense of what you are trying to say.

"An honest person has nothing to fear no matter what they are doing"? And what astoundingly backwards, fractured piece of logic took you to this stupifyingly ignorant conclusion? How do you understand "honest"? You can be honest about being dishonest no? Does honesty imply legal compliance? and does legal compliance make something morally or ethically acceptable, or honest?

Are you an honest person, Marsman? Do you think?

Please pop over to fortuzero.wordpress.org and you can spew your drivel there too.

Why are you fighting the ID. You ALREADY HAVE ONE! ...and the federal government and every lesser agency in each state already have you in their database with every peiece of information that will be stored in the Real-ID.

The chip in the ID is only a backup for the information easily read on the front of it. It's a RFID feedback, not a tracking system. Every guard post at every building and every airport gate is not going to be networked back to some massive central mainframe where every move you make is recorded. The sheer amount of information would be rediculous, and useless. The chip is only a means of the card being scanned so the guard can see if the information on the face of the card has been altered or forged in any way, and also to make it easy to update changing address information, vehicle registration, etc, without having to print another card.

The whole point here is to make the EXISTING ID SYSTEM more practical and less expensive.

If they want to know where you go, what you do, etc, it's much easier for them to get your debit card records than to mess with the database you propose they "might" create. Why would they be looking at your activity anyway unless they suspected you of a crime?

They already know when you get on planes, when you pay tolls, how much you make, and where you live. They track this with your existing ID, and for good reasons. Getting a fancy new ID that is universal for all Americans just makes it more reliable and CHEAPER. It also helps track criminals who might move from state to state to avoid imprisonment or to avoid paying taxes, or to get a new drivers license if they lost one in a previous state. It's a social security card with a picture on it for fuck's sake!!! That's all it is!

The actual issue is much deeper than reported. The RFID chip is the tech angle, but the document requirements for obtaining a Real ID are much stricter and it could be very difficult for many Americans to obtain all of the validating documents required. I did a briefing document for my organization on Real ID last year. Between new systems, new document issues, and new document issues the NEW costs from implementation (not including fees and budgets already charged or allocated) to states, local governments, and citizens is estimated at $22 Billion. Add in that this standard was created not as its own act, but as a rider on a Iraq War Funding and Hurricane Katrina Relief Bill (already an ugly combination before you include the hidden parts like Real ID).

To date the Federal Gov't has made approximately $50 million in new funding available.

"the British ID card is supposed to be rolled-out in the next year or two, and we're no nearer now than we ever were"

On the face of it, that is a good thing. As you rightly say, there is the lack of planning and technical competence associated with those who couldn't organise a party in a brewery.

The bad news is that every time we hear of a further delay, the reasons, for having ID Cards foisted on us, change. Which means that they have not yet stated the real reason. So fear of terrorism (and whatever else we are supposed to be fearful of this week) are just the tools for a job of greater importance. And that is the imposition of a Police State, worldwide by the sounds of it.

"making it harder for terrorists and immigrants to illegally stay in this country"

This makes absolutely no sense at all. A terrorist isn't a terrorist until after he/she has committed a terrorist act, seems to me.

And besides, didn't the 9/11 gang all have a legitimate presence in the US anyway? How would ultra-snoop ID have prevented that???

Seems to me that all the law enforcement types (FBI, CIA, NSA, local police forces, assorted snoops and busybodies) who've always dreamt of a total surveillance state in the US have just jumped on the anti-terrorism bandwagon. Old and busted: it's to protect the children; new and hot: it's to prevent terrorism.

The sad part is that there is a very real terrorist threat in the US, but all this cops'n'robbers nonsense means that enormous resources are being pissed away on ineffective preventive measures.

You don't need to institute a police state to prevent terrorism. Besides, if there's a real threat, maybe some loss of lives and property (as at 9/11) is simply a price that has to be paid for freedom. The 3000 or so deaths at the World Trade Center in this view are martyrs to the cause of civil liberty and freedom, not victims.

Sad prediction: Islamic terrorists will strike again in the US, and afterwards it will turn out that elementary policing methods had been neglected in favor of the gee-whiz, total surveillance approach. Moreover, the next successful attack will use a vector that does not involve aircraft at all, so all the air passenger screening in the world won't stop it. Remember, you read it here first.

I weep for the US, with those ignorant bozos in charge who are primarily interested in lining their and their friends' pockets instead of looking after the common welfare.

That would be interesting to see: the Balkanisation of the USA! Breakaway states demanding independence and forming their own little sovereign nations in defiance of the police-state NWO the US gov is setting up. I don't think Washington would take that sitting down though; can we expect to see US troops invading the newly independent Republics of California, Alaska and Montana in the future? Will Canada, Australia, the UK and EU side with Washington or the Free Republics? What would China's take be on all this? They have a lot to gain from the Balkanisation of their most powerful adversary, and their dream of world communism (and Chinese as the official global language) might not be too far off for them after all.