Agentless Backup is Not a Myth
Dr Alford, being a professional, may not have chosen to mix up something as volatile and dangerous as TATP - or if he did he may have taken steps to desensitise it somewhat, not wishing to foolishly blow himself up.
(Your correspondent once spoke to a forensic-explosives boffin from the UK gov lab at Fort Halstead, who described his reaction on being nonchalantly handed several pounds of a similar compound by a blissfully unaware copper back in the pre-9/11 era. He said it had taken years off his life.)
Dr Alford's mix apparently required a proper detonator, whereas proper mad-bomber TATP can be made to detonate using no more than heat or electric current.
Really good terrorists, as Dr Alford points out, can build home-made detonators which could conceivably be smuggled through security buried inside an electronic device. The Provisional IRA could do this, and not being suicidal types they had reason to; but proper barmy suicide fanatics would be unlikely to bother. The whole point of having dets is that most of your charge can be comparatively safe to handle and move about, and the det - which will go off if shown any disrespect - can be kept separate until the last moment and babied.
As of 2005 there were indeed several murderous jihadi scumbags resident in the UK who could actually mix up viable explosives in deadly amounts and who weren't under surveillance. Sensibly, rather than go for a risky caper like trying to penetrate airport security they simply walked onto the Tube, where confined spaces magnified the devices' effect - if not as much as a total structural failure in flight might have. Those men are all now dead, of course, which is what happens to competent suicide bombers - it's a self-correcting problem to some degree. The follow-on 21/7 series of damp squibs indicated that there were several more unknowns willing to die, but that these didn't have the necessary knowhow.
London is still here. Nothing has changed. You can still, any day you want, buy acetone and peroxide, keep trying carefully with small amounts until you learn how to make viable TATP. Then you can make a bomb and take it onto the Tube. If you are willing to die, you can certainly set it off amid dense rush-hour crowds. If you aren't ready to die, you can probably still manage it, to be honest; and if you fail you can try again and again, still being alive - though you'll need to plan carefully to deal with the CCTV.
Hell - as someone who actually can make good TATP, you shouldn't be involved in the operation on the ground at all. Dumb expendable footsoldiers who know nothing should be doing that. But more people means more risk of an informer - which is probably why the average size of terror networks in the UK is just 10 people, according to MI5.
COMMENTS
Why is everyone so fixated on TATP?
From the original article:
<quote>
However, not being interested in bigging up a marginal threat, he also pointed out the many practical difficulties involved in mixing up viable, deadly TATP from (fairly) easily purchased peroxide and acetone - and correctly laughed to scorn the idea that it's feasible to do this in an airliner lavatory.
That's not to say that four or five terrorists couldn't pass through security carrying their precursors and patiently mix up a viable batch of TATP in some secluded airside spot - and anyway, gaining access to airside doesn't necessarily mean passing through passenger security. Once the charge is done, the actual suicide bomber takes it aboard the plane. Bingo.
Dr Alford, being a professional, may not have chosen to mix up something as volatile and dangerous as TATP - or if he did he may have taken steps to desensitise it somewhat, not wishing to foolishly blow himself up.
<unquote>
Neither the "on-board toilet" nor the "secluded airside spot" scenarios for preparing TATP are remotely feasible (unless the "secluded spot" was a portakabin containing a laboratory). Also, Dr. Alford would, indeed, probably have chosen a different substance.
The explosives used in the 7/7 attacks in London were described at the time as "acetone peroxide" (AP). Here's how you make it:
http://www.totse.com/en/bad_ideas/ka_fucking_boom/acetoneperoxid173606.html
I saw this back on 15th July 2005. I looked it up out of curiosity, since I had never come across any such substance as "acetone peroxide" in my O-level chemistry studies and doubted its existence. (I suspected a bit of disinformation by the security services.)
AP is unstable and cannot be kept for more than two days. Note the disclaimer on the web page to the effect you are responsible for any criminal charges resulting from following this recipe, and if you kill yourself, don't try to sue the author.
AP (which I assume is the same as TATP) CANNOT be used without being very carefully prepared in advance.
However, there ARE commercially available liquid binary explosives, for example, FIXOR (TM). See http://www.mrel.com/FIXOR.html
This is manufactured by a reputable Canadian firm (MREL) who advertise it for use in clearance of land mines and unexploded ordnance. It has the following advantages (see MREL's publicity brochure):
1. Its two components are non-explosive when separate, and can be transported cheaply as safe material.
2. It is very simple to use: pour the contents of one bottle into the other, shake, shove a detonator through the cap of the bottle containing the mixture, and you're ready to blow.
3. If not detonated within two hours, the mixture spontaneously separates into its original constituents and is then no longer dangerous until given another shake. (A suicide bomber wouldn't leave it lying around for two hours, of course.)
4. Eco-friendly: does not leave toxic decomposition products (and so its separate constituents might not give off detectable fumes, but I am speculating here).
This seems ideal for the job, taken on board in Alcopops bottles by a few different volunteers, travelling separately, who meet up on board for a little party and to share their drinks. Watch out for the guy dropping his trousers to get the detonator out of his a***hole (except that he *would* do that in the toilet).
I'm surprised that someone with Lewis Page's qualifications isn't aware of such commercial explosives, and that El Reg commentators are so easily distracted into poo-pooing obviously infeasible plots.
(Skull and crossbones for sudden death.)
@AC
What an amazing lack of comprehension you have.
>> I still haven't said that I disagree with Franklin, but you continue to insist that I do
No, you still haven’t said anything useful, but continue to be upset that your lack of clear communication should be misinterpreted.
>>I'll have my own opinion thanks, not the one that you arrogantly ascribe to me.
This is absolutely incredible. I think if you could read, you would see that I made no such comment about your post, I merely said that you seemed to imply disagreement in your first post and didn’t improve the matter with your second post. You are fully entitled to your opinion, but since you seem disinclined to share it with us you can hardly justify calling others arrogant for misinterpreting what you do write.
>> I am simply tired of hearing the quote used willy-nilly with no attempt to justify it.
There is not need to justify it, it’s a Quotation.
>> If you don't grasp the basic difference, then I can only assume that you either don't want to, or can't.
More insults, thank you. Of course I can understand the difference, but you failed to make this point in your previous posts.
>> I didn't imply it.
Well it seems what you intended and what you achieved have diverted from each other. Perhaps if you had taken time to write your thoughts clearly in the first place you would not have to get all upset and resort to insults for being misunderstood.
For added clarification, I would say that I generally agree with the sentiments of the “Franklin Quote”. My stance on that point has nothing whatsoever to do with my reply to your posts; I was and am simply amazed beyond belief that you could get so upset about being misinterpreted when what you write is so clearly ambiguous.
You give up too easily Mr White
"What does "We have become the terrorist, haven't we sir?" mean in context please?"
It's a polite way of saying "You should have turned it clockwise, you useless fuckwit!"
Or, possibly, "THAT was the wrong wire to cut, you festering baboon!", to a senior rank when they screw up majestically.
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