Notwithstanding the fact that the story was complete bollocks, any movement down this line of reasoning would seem to dictate that future Olympic events should be held in entirely neutral locations, namely international waters. On huge flotillas. With representation from all species, phyla, genders, races, creeds, colours* etc.

Beav

* no, I don't know what I'm talking about either

In all likelihood, the fatigue life on the Reds Hawks will run out by 2011...

MW

...people who read tabloids deserve to be lied to.

Sounds like a communist plot to me...

Well I signed it on sight so add yourself to the 'blame' el reg :)

Sorry... I'm a pissed off scot that has never and will never see anything come of the millennium dome, the London eye or anything else for that matter thats had the tax sink hole pointed at it from afar. Whole bloody thing is a waste of resources at a time when the UK couldn't plan a piss up in a brewery neverimind an international event.

I guess you could take exception to the Scottish 'parish council' but even that's a pathetic embarrassing waste of money, cover-ups and scam. And yeah, Scotland really needs the commonwealth games about as much as Uganda needs sand, at least the Olympics *might* make a profit. Stop the viewing tower in Glasgow from sinking and THEN maybe I wont laugh at you at the thought of the Olympics.

IF planned right, the London games should bring in massive amounts of commerce and interest from the international community but what's the chance of that happening? The goatse emblem is about as useful as the current one and shit they've not even started yet!!

If you're in Britain shouldn't you expect ... you know... British stuff? The Red Arrows are second to none in a time when Britain is almost last in EVERY other industry, sport and science. Why do they not just go the full hog and sing baa baa rainbow sheep at the opening ceremony while they are fscking at it?

stupid damn eurocratic politically correct bureaucratic pansy bastards the lot of them!

/rant.

As much as I do agree with you ....

would the thought surprise you?

that may be true, but they still have the power of the vote.

I would like to see an awareness based test before being allowed to vote, otherwise we'll just end up with whoever has the best brainwashing team and the most money to bribe Murdoch to power it...oh.

The frikkin' British Nazi Party:

http://www.bnp.org.uk/news_detail.php?newsId=1717

IMO, anyone who gets their news from The Sun should be burned at the stake for being so silly in the first place (Chavs included, if they could read, they'd read The Sun).

...but who will supply the flotillas? They might need to be made by all species, phyla, genders, races, creeds, colours* etc. that way they won't be too English, German, French, American, Italian, Indian etc. etc.

It has little to do about sport, more about political vanities and the inner circles filling their pockets, see what The Sunday Times wrote yesterday:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/sport/london_2012/article2654494.ece

The cost has already trebled to 9 billion - how much more will this pointless exercise rob from us ?

Hats off to Sun. Before the inevitable ban is declared they preempt it and get a mass petition going to let the government know just how British we all are.

Glad it wasn't done just to try and make a sensational headline.

"......people who read tabloids deserve to be lied to."

Unfortunately this means that the politicians lie to them too, and therefore to those of us who don't read tabloids. And the lies get votes, so the most accomplished at telling lies get elected.

Hooray for democracy.

Spirit of the blitz eh wot wot?

The Times has been a tabloid for three years.

Yes, i suppose you're right.

Is anybody except _Sun_ readers surprised that this story turned out to be a heap of toss? There's a history of newspapers printing untrue stories to cast authority figures in a bad light, while printing just enough true (though ultimately meaningless) material to give it some credibility. A favourite tactic seems to be blaming the government's *own* decisions on "barmy Brussels bureaucrats".

It'd be laughable, if not for the fact that the people who read this crap actually take it seriously.

Anyway, I voted for Paris for 2012. I wanted the Olympic Games to come to Britain; but not so badly that I'd put up with them being in London.

this is an outrage!

Sunday Express, 14 October 2007, page 83. Letter from Olympics Minister Tessa Jowell:

"In response to recent speculation regarding the Red Arrows, it is completely untrue to suggest the Government has banned the Red Arrows from celebrations to mark the London 2012 Olympic Games"

Sunday Telegraph, 14 October 2007, page 27. Letter from Mr Ken Ellison:

"The Red Arrows have been banned from the 2012 London Olympics because they are deemed "too militaristically British". Is this what Gordon Brown meant by "be proud to be British?"

Well the whole story is typical trash-tabloid-toss isn't it? They love to show any sort of story that provokes the nations "anti-foreigner" response and there are plenty of people stupid enough to buy into it.

In fact I would go as far as to say that The Sun may well be responsible for a large proportion of the racism and xenophobia that exists in todays UK society. They persistently print stories which either completely focus on, or are biased towards, how "undertrodden" the typical British person in. It would not surprise me at all if I were to find out that several members of The Sun staff were National Front members or something similar.

This particular tabloid prints stories which, intentional or not, breed hatred, fear and in turn, racism and dislike of anyone not typically British. If it were my choice, it'd be banned.

Christ, you're a boring bugger.

... forced sterilisations to go, please. Here's the list of names and addresses. Don't use a blunt spoon unless you really have to, but then again, it is the future of the species we're trying to save here.

You can start with this guy:

"stupid damn eurocratic politically correct bureaucratic pansy bastards the lot of them!"

who, even after being told that it's completely made up, still thinks it proves something about the organisers. Think you'd probably better give that one a lobotomy too.

Grammatically challenged headline of article at http://www.bnp.org.uk/news_detail.php?newsId=1717: "Red Arrows banned from Olympics for being are "too British". (sic)"

"...for being are..." ...Ooops.

Surely no-one actually reads the Sun? They just look at the pictures.

I've long been in favour of basic reasoning tests to qualify for a vote. Yes, I realise that everybody deserves to have a say in their representative but if that individual is too stupid to understand what is being said what's the point in counting their vote?

@Ian,

We're not bad at everything, think we're still topping the European Teen Pregnancy rates! Go Britain! We should be so proud of these fertile throwbacks.

Other wise It would spoil the hypocrisy of all the snide remarks about military parades in all the other military dictatorships.

Stand in awe of by big FAT gun, and remember who's your Monarch.

Well I don't think you would pass your own test.

Hooray for democracy in the UK, as apposed to Spoonville

"In all likelihood, the fatigue life on the Reds Hawks will run out by 2011..."

Says who?

How do papers in the UK get away with printing blatant lies? Do you not have some sort of a watchdog or government body that deals with papers who continuously print untruths? How do people know what is true or not?

The advantage of democracy above other political systems is that the people get the government they deserve.

Good grief. How long will it be before people realise that the Sun is a comic, not a newspaper. Not a single fecking word in it is true. People who believe what they read in the Sun need to get back on their medication. Stupid idiots for buying it in the first place.

I love the way that El Reg did nothing in the title of this story to point out that it was complete bo**ocks. Technically making them guilty of exactly the same sort of behaviour as the Sun but remember.....they didn't start it.

Let's make a British Linux and claim it has been denied access to all gov institutions and they prefer Microsoft. And of course ask people from Sun to sign ;)

"In all likelihood, the fatigue life on the Reds Hawks will run out by 2011..."

"Says who?"

Well by then the youngest of the aircraft will be 30 years old, doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that 30 years of Hi-G manouvers will take its toll on an airframe. There comes a point it it begins to be very expensive to keep an aircraft flying.

Its one of the reasons that the MoD is buying new Hawks for the training fleet. At the last count they were only buying 28, so that doesn't leave much for the Reds.

My guess is that the lowest houred examples of the training fleet might go to the reds, but its only a guess.

MW

Fucking hell Ian from Scotland, do you piss on babies as well? Cheer the fuck up! Have a week in Malaga and get some sun it'll do you good.

If the "flyboy" were truly "too British" he wouldn't have been "blown away" --- he'd've been "GOBSMACKED" !

"You can start with this guy:

"stupid damn eurocratic politically correct bureaucratic pansy bastards the lot of them!"

who, even after being told that it's completely made up, still thinks it proves something about the organisers. Think you'd probably better give that one a lobotomy too."

Would it *REALLY* surprise you if they actually did ban the red arrows considering they've already outlawed centuries old nursery rhymes?

I have no concern about race or colour... but there is certainly a cultural divide forming in the UK and THAT is what's brewing the racial hatred. It has very little to do with the pigment of a persons skin.

But you know what they say.... "When in Rome, ..... do as the British do?"

JIMHO if your not willing to live here in a UK culture then you've no right to come here and pervert ours to your own. If you think that's racist, try taking your wife to the arse end of India with short sleeves on.

Steven,

"We're not bad at everything, think we're still topping the European Teen Pregnancy rates! Go Britain! We should be so proud of these fertile throwbacks."

Both are the same issue. The majority of the 'educated' are not willing to procreate due to lack of economic stability.... so the stupid are encouraged to fsck like bunnies so they can bring a dying population up to pay for the massive increase in O.A.Ps... sadly as mentioned, they are the least likely to work in the first place and therefore least likely to put any money back into the economy. (and no it should have been obvious before Idiocracy came out) My x girlfriend went to put her name in for a flat once and was flat out told officially that she should get up the duff to secure a roof.

This is where immigration comes in, again to build up the dying UK citizenship. I love the Pols (they are Scottish apparently? after all!) but due to their own economic downturn they are more likely encouraged to come here and work for 5 years or so then return to Poland and live like kings and again not doing that much use for the economy (kinda like the ban on taking currency back from Prague)

The sad reality of it all is that the majority of foreign workers do avoid paying taxes, are here for an easy life and are as patriotic about their own culture as we are to our beer and fish n chips. (believe me I've worked with lots of nice natured varied immigrants and asylum seekers in my time but I'd say that 80% of them were economic migrants... not political victims.

Question, if your country was being invaded and you needed shelter... why would you travel through 3 - 4 peaceful countries just to get to the UK?

So I've stated the issues... the very real issues, from quite a number of positions... real question is... what do you do about them? :-|

stop giving hand outs to bun in the oven 12 year olds? and spend years afterwards putting up with 'uninformed' sprogged down teens that are homeless and increasing petty none drug related crime? (and reducing your population)

slow down immigration so that the EU can sue you for being racist while inciting protests in the white minority areas of the Uk? (also reducing your population)

stop educating women so that they have to stay at home and tend sprog while their well off man is out earning the big bucks? (possibly giving the economy a boost, the educated population a boost and starting womens equal rights riots all across the country?)

Euthanase everyone over 70 so that money can be spent fostering future population growth, services and education while inciting ageism groups to pick up their walking frames and picket Westminster? (death threats and denture cream bombs not considered)

stop pretending that the unemployed are actually in 'education' ... provide realistic stats and then conscript all those 6 months really unemployed off to Iraq?

OR, you know! how about fixing the economy... lower house prices for those just starting out... kill off the tax breaks for millionaires that can afford to buy up 30 properties and lease them out, stop the supermarkets from screwing the MANUFACTURERS (the public have never had prices this cheap but god does the quality suffer)

I would hate to be the person choosing from that list... and I'm not even going to suggest that I agree with any or all of the above.... (and yes I do realise I'm cherry picking extremes) I hate the sun as much as the next man here (although not as much as I hate the daily star) but our country has some very serious issues that WE should sort out before we start meddling with anothers.

We're going to be following Beijing where they've even organised the weather - how can we compete? We can't, so let's not bother. Let's be honest, this country's motto should be: 'Britain - it's a bit crap'.

I want my Olympic opening ceremony to be jaw-droppingly, etched on the soul of humanity awful. ITV1 small hours of the morning bad.

Formation morris dancing, the Spice Girls, old maids on bicycles (see previous item) acting out the London Underground map, pearly kings and queens singin' round the old joanna, synchronised carjacking - and scripted by Russell T Davies. All performed in the half-finished Tessa Jowell Mortgage Memorial Stadium in front of acres of empty seats (and still more acres of places where seats should be, but B&Q didn't deliver in time) - the audience still being forced to go through their Home Office approved cavity searches. The whole grisly spectacle glimpsed through a frigid summery downpour by the light of eBayed fireworks.

Then the whole steroid powered running and jumping show has to be called off when the remains of a 'we're all friends now' V2 is discovered under the winner's podium - ensuring the country descends into that peculiar mix of farce and jingoistic outrage which typifies modern Britain.

Anything less and it'll be a crashing disappointment.

Karl Marx's grave, now that's what I call a communist plot...

Lets use front-line fighters for our display teams again.

Hunters - 22 looped and rolled together by 111 Sqdn "Black Arrows"

Lightnings - 74 Sqdn "the Tigers"

Makes you glad to be British, God bless the Queen etc. Or for the liberal/republican vote, got to be a better use than sending them places to be shot at.

...of life in Brown's Britain? If so, count me out. I'll have to return my passport, I suppose I better find a UK consulate so I can personally renounce my status as an object...oopsie, sorry, subject of the crown.

What a bunch of crap. Who is organizing the games, the French? Too British? How many other nations worry about not showing off their identity when hosting a major games event? What a load of Brown!

I hate to be pedantic, but I think that Karl was more of a Marxist...

"Fucking hell Ian from Scotland, do you piss on babies as well? Cheer the fuck up! Have a week in Malaga and get some sun it'll do you good."

Sun? that still exists? sorry I'm having a rather morose day... but you shouldn't worry :) I'm always taking the piss out of someone.. who can you laugh at if you cant laugh at yourself ? :)

... I only piss on babies on a saturday, leave them to soak and stoke the bbq for the weekend.

You are way too serious and way too boring and, in that last monologue, wayyyyy too long.

And I'll stay an AC because you also sound like an internet stalker.

Yes - an international consortium is needed that will achieve precisely nothing before 2012. And in keeping with the whole RAF theme, something like wot we did with the Eurofighter/Typhoon, writ large. While we're at it, we should be considering the valued opinions of the single-cell organisms which may or may not exist on other planets. They have feelings too.

Paging amanfromMars

PS Smokey, old chap - how the devil are you?

I'm just surprised the sun didn't claim the Red Arrows were to be replaced with Flying Sharks. All those kids in stupid t-shirts ruined my holiday to St Ives!!!*

So where is the outcry calling for a public aplogy from the sun and its editor's head on a spike outside the BBC? Oh wait, it's ok if it's Uncle Rupert telling us lies.

* Ok, it didn't, St Ives was great :-)

The good news is that with Postal & Tube strikes, the nation now has an extra year in which to organise the Opening Ceremony in 2013.

you chaps got off lucky there. Or did you-there's plenty of time yet for this sort of thing to happen. Not allowed to be proud to be British? You all thought it was pretty funny when it happens to us Yanks. We warned ya *all* of Western culture was under attack, all it's greatnesses and moments of pride to be covered in poop like a bepigeon'd statue. Most of ya joined in the "Merkan" bashing. Of course, in all fairness, the voices chiming in are probably stooges and shills sneaking in thru proxies anyways. Now, it's your turn. Be ashamed of your past! Be afraid to be British! Willie Shakespeare? Just a copy of some unheard of Indian writer, says the revisionists. Churchill's speeches? cheap knockoffs from Ghandi's hidden diary according to the next internet conspiracy. The Blitz? All a fabrication, caused by the Queen's personal "Blood for Bratwurst" campaign.

So laugh at us Seppo's, but you're circling the drain with us. We'll see ya after the flush.

...those of you who believe your officials would never consider such a thing and then lie out their @ss when confronted by it (and ridiculing the source of the revelation), or those who go off the deep end from a tabloid story.

The self-important comments, who try to sound oh so worldly, talking of American media lying and American politicians dissembling, in order to distract from the uncomfortable possibility that your tabloid rag was right. Rather than take things into consideration, you respond like good Liberal automatons, where it's all contrarian response to established thought, regardless of the quality of that thought.

If a different publication had carried the same story, the "official denials" issued wouldn't be enough to satisfy any of you. But since it's a) the Sun, and b) not part of your belief system, the "official denial" is perfectly acceptable and allows all sorts of patting yourselves on the back for being so much smarter than everyone else. And in true (Godwin's Law) fashion, out come the eugenics comments, carefully formulated to be anti-white as to avoid any obvious racial payload.

Anyone who automatically believes everything from *any* media outlet, while completely denying every and all government/establishment statements-is as just a complete moron as one who swaps the source of their faith.

Paris Hilton icon more appropriate than ever.

I must agree that the Hawks are a little "old hat" by now, and probably due for replacement.

What about upping the order for Eurofighters by 9 (+spares) extra for them?

I'd sign a petition to get that moving along. Using frontline fighters would be a much better idea and good for exports too.

its been a while since I readup on the typhoons but if I do remember correctly they would fly like bricks if it wasn't for the fly-by-wire computer technology keeping them stable....

I'm not sure what I'd be willing to trust in a warzone nevermind an aerobatics display... just pray it aint running windows :D

Even if not true, it seems to us on the otherside of the globe to be typical of government thinking

Think back to Trafalgar Day last year (you when you poms celebrated the 250th anniversary of your most important military victory since 1066) - and many people were bemused by what exactly they WERE celebrating as you weren't allowed the F or V words (minds out of the gutter - French & Victory)

All military displays are banned from the Olympics. The Red Arrows are still part of the RAF, therefore they're banned too. Nothing to do with the EU, Brown or the politically correct brigade.

The Sun were told this from the start and instead made up their usual toss and carefully avoided interviewing anyone who could explain the very simple situation. If you want the Red Arrows to fly around during the opening ceremony the solution is easy. Privatise them...

"the stupid are encouraged to fsck like bunnies so they can bring a dying population up to pay for the massive increase in O.A.Ps.."

That sounds far to rational a chain of thought for a stupid to put together. More likely it was just could that they cannot figure out how to open a three pack.

Anyway, most stupids would SCANDISK, not fsck.

When I was a small Mr Larrington living in a militaristic society, the Armed Forces did a Happening at my skool; we had the Red Arrows, a Vulcan, a Lightning and a pair of nutters doing close-formation aerobatics in Jet Provosts. It was deafening, and jaw-droppingly excellent to look at. And Colonel John Blashford-Snell, just back from crossing the Darien Gap in a Range Rover, being /terribly/ British. The Navy was there too, but they were a bit rubbish in comparison.

Nowadays the Safety Nazis would ensure it wouldn't get past Old Kent Road, as it would make too much noise and frighten the horses.

Bah!

".......anything else for that matter thats had the tax sink hole pointed at it from afar."

What, like Scotland?

Story like this brings out the eugenics comments, which I'm not going to knock because I'm still unsure whether it's just sarcastic joking or not. As to the "'Merkin" it's classism, nothing to do with racism. Saying that "white trash" are stupid would be verging on racism (but is still more classist in my opinion).

Of course, I'm not even going to go near the people that seem to mock Sun readers and have Daily Mail attitudes to things like immigration. My fiancee is a researcher specialising in immigration, so I know a little bit about it (although I only pick up information from her and other sources, I'm not claiming expertise on it, I just want to dispense some things I've picked up). Over the last ten years, contrary to the belief that immigrants ONLY come to the UK, Germany actually has the highest increase of immigrant influx in Europe.

Immigrants pay tax. Their wages should be taxed, and if they're not then the employer wouldn't exactly be likely to make sure their UK employess payed tax either would they? Immigrants pay council tax like anyone else, and help housing (in that they still try to fit more than three people in a house to save on cost, Britain is in the middle of a housing crisis with local councils having nowhere near enough money to build enough houses) problems. They're much harder workers in general than us UK lot, but even though they're cheap, plentiful, and hard working they actually make up less than 5% of the UK workforce. Economic migrants are a _GOOD_ thing for Britain. They attract companies (good for our economy) because of their cheapness, they pay tax, and they don't take homes away from people, if anything, they help increase housing.

On the other hand, the UK has a problem with illegal immigrants, who are of course, untaxable, work for even cheaper wages than economic migrants, and are often confused with legitimate migrants. We need tougher controls to prevent illegal immigrants from entering our country, but we need to be careful not to isolate ourselves by stopping legitimate asylum seekers (which are yet another topic) or economic migrants. Personally, I think that it would make more sense to attack the people that transport immigrants (as a lot of migrants don't even know where they're going until they land).

It's all too easy to stand above it all and say "bloody immigrants", however, if my family was starving, I know that I would do anything in my power to help them, even if it involved risking my life for a bit of money to help them eat. It's a more complicated issue than is usually portrayed in the Bun or the Mail or even the Telegraph, Times and Guardian, and almost certainly than ITN, but that's no excuse for simply agreeing with it without knowing the facts, if you do that you're no better than the Sun readers who fell for this story.

</rant>

maybe they could go and practise down in Stratford right now instead of flying past my office window for half the working day. Noisy bastards.

"its been a while since I readup on the typhoons but if I do remember correctly they would fly like bricks if it wasn't for the fly-by-wire computer technology keeping them stable...."

Just like pretty much *all* modern fighters, then. They're made unstable and run on a FBW system to improve manoeuvrability.

"Would it *REALLY* surprise you if they actually did ban the red arrows considering they've already outlawed centuries old nursery rhymes?"

See, here you're just proving that people really do believe made up stories in the tabloids. That story about "baa baa black sheep" was a myth, for godness' sake. One that's maintained legs, sadly, but a myth nontheless.

What do you expect from that rag?

They never told the truth about Hillsborough, so you don't expect them to get this right do you? Facts always get in the way of a good headline...

It would be best if everyone stopped buying the rag.

"All military displays are banned from the Olympics."

It wouldn't be a military display. It would be a display by the military's aerobatics team. There's a difference.

As for fatigue life and all that.. The Red Arrows are extremely well maintained, and aeroplanes just don't really deteriorate that much (nothing like cars), so I imagine they have a good few years left in them yet.

I fly gliders that are now over 50 years old, some other people at my gliding club fly pre WWII gliders still in good shape.

In any case, I'm fairly sure that they aren't going to just leave themselves without aeroplanes. If they get to the end of their airframe life, and no extension is granted (which would be unusual) then I'm sure they have a plan in hand to get hold of some more aeroplanes. I'm sure they know exactly how long they can keep flying the Hawks for.

Practically all modern fighters (starting with F16 and including Su-27 and now MiG-29 family) are designed to be inherently unstable to increase maneurability. As such, they have to be flown-by-wire because otherwise the pilot workload is too much + they won't be able to get the performance out of the machine as they will have to handle it with extreme care (not a good idea in a dogfight).

That does not stop them from performing at airshows. In fact, the most amazing displays IMOH are usually those by the fly-by-wire fighters (incl the Typhoon).

The issue is the cost - to maintain a display team with 9 Eurofighters Mr Darling will have to introduce mandatory ID cards right this minute and then insist that every UK citizen buys a new one every month...

Thanks mate. They have enough of their own crazy ideas without you giving them more FFS. (I expect to see that argument for ID cards used in the very near future!)

..........I'm not sure what I'd be willing to trust in a warzone nevermind an aerobatics display... just pray it aint running windows :D

I can see it now. "full_throttle.dll not found", and 'fatal exception' takes on a whole new meaning.

I'm surprised by the number of people who didn't know that most fighters were fly by wire. A lot of modern cars are probably 'drive by wire' as well.

@Vladimir

"designed to be inherently unstable to increase maneurability. As such, they have to be flown-by-wire because otherwise the" voter "workload is too much + they won't be able to get the performance out of the" MP "as they will have to handle it with extreme care

inherently unstable? Sounds like the MPs on the culture committee ... not to mention the guys who gave the northern rock people a grilling but had themselves not bothered to turn up to previous hearings of their own committee .. now _that's_ unstable ...