I think Suse is pretty good.They really give an effort, you only have to look at their desktop environment. While other distros just stick with what comes from Gnome - KDE, they dig in deep, and integrate stuff as much as possible. Everthing that's screaming bleeding edge is there. It's not enabled by default, but accessible. However - nobody actually knows how many of this is developed in Redmont. I have friends at Microsoft Germany - and believe you me - they know Suse by heart. Other distros mess with Mono - .NET is almost ready for Suse. I have seen Silverlight run on Suse like it was XP. Soon, very soon, Suse will be something like XP, only with a different file system/desktop. I admire Suse for their work, but I wouldn't want a Linux distro that is MS-influenced in any way. Sadly, a Linux which is 'as MS compatible as possible' will soon find it's way to the hearts of IT execs, in any mixed-OSed company. Some FSF worshippers invented the punchline: 'Not a single line of code for Novell/Suse', which, is of course, wishful thinking. You can't restrict access to 'true believers'. Fsck GPL3, how can anyone prove GPLed code in binaries that come without source ? IMHO any individual that cares about open source, should mark Suse as commercial and 'soon to be proprietary' , and stay away from it. If you really need an OS that can do what Windows does - then use Windows. If you care about 'free as in beer' use true GNU/Linux or BSD. It's as simple as that. There's nothing in between.

- - IMHO any individual that cares about open source, should mark Suse as commercial and 'soon to be proprietary' , and stay away from it. If you really need an OS that can do what Windows does - then use Windows. If you care about 'free as in beer' use true GNU/Linux or BSD. It's as simple as that. There's nothing in between.

Too true. Linux is Linux-GPL v.2. Have you seen MS-SuSE's software list and it's WARNING yet? Chilling!!!

Screw all these. I'm staying with Slackware.

me to it once you try slack you'll never go back. There will always be a Slackware.

In sheep's clothing.

May Debian remain forever free.

...Couldn't possibly Microsoft being influenced by Linux as it stands at present?

I mean: look at the other side of the river: At MS the word is that "Linux is an OS and not a communist party". They are even ready to support it and they made their major packages relatively aware of this part of the outer world.

And you think Mono is a bad thing for Linux? Do you know why the IT that counts buys Windows products? Because there is software for them.

In my little world Microsoft acts as a software provider and I cannot do without it (albeit I'd like to). I think the guys at Redmond did the right thing by championing Novell as their bridge to Open Source and we all benefit of this by having more choice. Really: Open Source is bigger than MS and they will soon discover that there is a balance between their will to dominate the world and convenience.

Finally: I do not understand people advocating freedom of choice in the IT industry and then sporting this attitude of "Open Source or Nothing". It's typical Microsoft-ish talking.

Get me coat.

GaB

Novell are using GPL v3

openSUSE is Free Software

But as long as the Linux community is full of people like the previous posters who needs proprietary FUD?

rather than a niche...

then SuSE are (imo) as close as it gets, though Ubuntu are better at publicity and RH are more comfortable for Enterprise IT.

Still, with a few hundred other distros to choose from, probably mostly with ten users or less per distro per country, no one would miss SuSE if it went away, would they? Would they?

I have to agree with Gerry.

SuSE was bought out by Novell and its probably the best "industrial" strength distro out there. (No need to start a RedHat vs SuSE war...)

That deal with the devil works both ways. Microsoft needs mono more than the linux community needs .Net. (Think about it.)

But by having mono, SuSE becomes more palatable to those who live in a Microsoft centric world.

The bigger gripe is that if you download and burn an ISO disc, you don't get all of the goodies as if you punted the $50+ dollars for the "official" release.

Get real. Sure the Microsoft deal makes Novell look bad. But hey. How much money does Novell have to waste on lawyers defending itself in a patent dispute against Microsoft? Microsoft, unlike SCO, has money. (Think about it.)

-G

Indeed.

So long as the Linux "evangelists" such as those that have replied here continue to shout "my Linux is better than your Linux, your Linux is the spawn of the devil", rather than "most Linux better than most Windows", there's no hope for volume adoption of any Linux.

Yes, Linux already has its niches - Ubuntu was hip/trendy a few months back (haven't checked the hipometer lately), RH has held the hip/trendy position in some server-centric parts of the IT world for years (I remember playing with RH4, for example), but so long as all the efforts are diluted by going in as many different directions as there are distros on distrowatch.org, pro-Linux effort is being *wasted*.

But there are plenty of precedents for infighting. Even if the failing Vista sales figures give the Linux world their best opportunity yet, why should I expect anything to be different this time, if the People's Front for the Liberation of Linux can't agree anything worthwhile with the Popular Front for the Liberation of Linux (etc)?

Does this make any more sense than amanfrommars?

The only thing missing if you download the (DVD) ISO is the manual and the free 30 day support.

Been a Suse fanboy since 6.2, it's never let me down nor have I found a feature on an alternative distro that I would find advantageous.

I think Novell/Suse are doing a sterling job of raising the bar for Linux, long may it continue.

> Couldn't possibly Microsoft being influenced by Linux as it stands at present?

What, you mean like with ODF? Ooh yes; they *really* liked that one, didn't they - and it's not even a Linux standard. It's an Open Standard so a blundering, bully-boy technique had to be used to try and shoot it down because it might affect Microsoft's tie-in dominance with their secretive & proprietary file formats.

> I mean: look at the other side of the river: At MS the word is that "Linux is an OS and not a communist party".

Funny - it doesn't seem so long ago that they were calling it a cancer and trying to make it impossible to sell machines with no OS installed. Same old claptrap, different set of shiny beads.

> They are even ready to support it and they made their major packages relatively aware of this part of the outer world.

No they're not. It's only because they've become aware that many of their users are moving to Linux that they've started blowing trumpets about "supporting" it, in a seedy attempt at winning some of them back. If they'd only used the same standards that the rest of the world *is already using* then everything would have fallen into place with little to no effort.

> And you think Mono is a bad thing for Linux?

It's nothing more than an attempt by Microsoft at getting itself embedded into Linux for the same reasons that they fart about with document formats: user tie-in.

> Do you know why the IT that counts buys Windows products? Because there is software for them.

Pah - this is FUD. Do *you* know why the IT which *really* counts runs on Unix or Linux? It's because they use open, proven, reliable, peer-approved and well-documented standards - something Microsoft has always fought tooth and nail to avoid.

--quote--

The bigger gripe is that if you download and burn an ISO disc, you don't get all of the goodies as if you punted the $50+ dollars for the "official" release.

--end quote--

That is a fact, but not the whole story...

Yes, the purchased dvd (~9GB) contains more packages than the downloadable iso (~4.7GB). However, on-line repositories are available which contain all of the packages that make up the distribution, the "official release" as you put it. You can access these whether you download the iso or purchase the dvd. They are available to anyone.

The on-line repositories contain more packages than are available even on the commercial dvd.

It is simply a question of space...

Oh dear, more FUD... "Linux already has its niches". How gracious of you to grant that observation, and how funny it is for those of us who know differently.

You speak FUD of the various Linux distributions as if they were all completely different and incompatible with each other while knowing nothing of the underlying standards which make them all essentially the same thing, and don't notice that the silly evangelism noise comes from the same types who would likewise twitter about screensavers, minor interface tweaks and a plethora of other ephemeral aspects of Windows.

> why should I expect anything to be different this time

Isn't that what more and more Windows users are asking?

I use Suse because it works for me.

I use Windows because I have to, it's my job.

If Suse stops being the best fit for me- I'lll move to Ubuntu or Mepis., or whatever.I will never go back to Windoze for personal use.

Why?

I use Windows nearly all day, every day at work- it's what I do, because most of the customers we support use Windows.

Our work network is a mix of Linux, OSX and Windows..

I use Windows more because I need to support it more, the other OSes just work, and keep working.

At home, I use Suse. So does my wife, my grandson uses Ubuntu.

It is just a more pleasant experience.

I run XP and Suse 10.2 on similar hardware, but the Linux experience is generally, just nicer, mainly because nearly every time I boot Windows, the av runs, the as runs, the OS sits there for ages, the network connection takes ages....

And funnily enough, running Suse 10.2 (dual boot) on the same hardware at work, it boots quicker, it connects quicker, it reads network folders quicker.. it "just works" better... even Evolution downloads Exchange email faster than Outlook......

Never mind the ideology. I just want a quality distribution that does what I need. I've been with SuSE since 6.4. I've tried others (and some are quite impressive), but SuSE/opensuse keeps me coming back for more.

It is now Day 2 if my opensuse 10.3 torrent download. 71% complete. I'll be busy in another 10 to 12 hours...

Oh dear, touched a nerve did I?

Linux *does* have its niches, in various markets, but to most of the general public and even to most of the IT world it is barely visible. Surely you wouldn't disagree with that? It's a shame, but it has been that way for a very *long* time (in IT terms, where most people view five years as a long time).

I'm well aware of the standards on and around which GNU/Linux is based. For example, I remember POSIX and XPG4, both part of a set of standards which was supposed to enable Unixes to compete on a level playing field for "open standards"-based business (eg US and various other governments), back in the days when "open standards" were trendier than "open source".

I even remember Lasermoon in England who were hoping to be big by being the first POSIX-certified, XPG4-certified, GPL-licenced UNIX-compatible (1) distro. That was back in 1995 or so. They vanished (went bust?) shortly after that, although Caldera (remember them?) bought some of their POSIX and XPG stuff.

I also remember wondering if the Linux Standards Base would have a more visible long term impact than POSIX and XPG4. So, standards, yeah, as the saying goes "the nice thing is there's so many to choose from", and the number of window managers or mail clients or (whatever) a Linux user can pick from certainly illustrates that.

Isn't it funny how there's only one real gcc and one real Linux kernel though? Where standards/compatibility is a requirement needed by the techies rather than an afterthought needed if Joe Public is to get with the program, standards can't be ignored so easily.

Way back in the dinosaur era, Unix was going downhill commercially till the commercial outfits decided the infighting between the System V and the BSD camps was a distraction (what chance is their of writing portable apps to take over the world when the two Unixes can't agree on the syntax for "fd = open( )"? Java's taken off, not because it gives people choices, but because it's (allegedly) a standard.

Etc. Get the drift?

The Windows world mostly just ignores standards unless it suits them ("embrace and extend", remember?). Ignoring standards hasn't hurt MS too much, but the Linux world doesn't have the advantage of being the incumbent monopoly (except perhaps in a few niches such as HPTC and ...), and unless something changes in the way the "evangelists" behave (ie the first few replies here), it'll stay that way. Would these "evangelists" really rather have folks using Windows rather than using a Linux which isn't their own divinely-chosen preferred distro, 'cos that's how the first few replies read to me?

[1] UNIX is a trademark of ... so many different companies I've lost track. And perhaps there's a lesson there too; diversity is good sometimes, but not always.

Open Source avenues/parallels are the Special Forces of MainStream Operating Systems and their regard for any Rules of Engagement/Command Structure equally Relative and Provisional.

"At MS the word is that "Linux is an OS and not a communist party". They are even ready to support it and they made their major packages relatively aware of this part of the outer world." Cool metaphor, Anonymous Vulture, .....makes a lot of Perfect Sense.

Of course, before the Invention of Closed and Secret Society Systems Using and Abusing Capitalism and ITs Controls, there was always natural communism, which is the Default Natural State...... for anything Created to replace it is an artificially created program for Subjective Control of Power rather than Objective Power in Control.

And an Open Source/MS Tie-in is inevitable ..... seeing as how they can hardly see what you are doing through their nifty Windows portal, if you don't use it.

How many times have you done something new to discover that it is not so new all of a sudden? A Shoddy Spy in every Home?

Holy ShIT, Batman, Shoddy IT just aint Cricket.

Does the capitalist tie-in make S.u.S.E. "Running Dog Linux"?

Just asking, been out of college so long...

Which reminds me:

"Who's the Glorious Chairman of the Chinese Communist Party?"

--Fat Freddy (AKA Frederick Freekowtski)

"Maaaoooo!"

--Fat Freddy's Cat

P.S. I used to like S.u.S.E. because you could go into Borders and walk out with a well-backed, well-packed Linux distro with manual. Now it just seems to be a pawn (or is it stalking horse?) in a much larger game. As for Novell's craven capitulation to (probably vacuous) patent threats, I'm put in mind of a Spike Jones tune. Updating the lyrics was easy, too easy, actually:

Ven Herr Ballmer says, "Ve own ze desktop space"

Ve "Heil!" (boom) "Heil!" (boom) right in Herr Ballmer's face.

Not to kneel to Redmond is a great disgrace,

Zo ve "Heil!" (boom) "Heil!" (boom) right in Herr Ballmer's face!