So, in order to have the pleasure of using MS's applications, you have to have the full fat version bloating your hard disk.

And the point of this is...??? The whole point of having *web-based* apps is, erm, that they're web based, not some arse-about face ActiveX security hole plugin that requires the full application itself.

For extra fun and joy, MS will doubtless require that you use "The World Most Insecure Browser" (TM) as well.

It's obvious what MS are doing here though - they'll build this junk into sharepoint to further muddy the waters and ensure that users user their products and their products alone.

Why would I bother with the web based version? Lets see, trade in the advantages of it all being local: faster response times, not loosing my work when my cheap adsl connection drops out again,etc, in exchange for.... What exactly?

Amazing. Let's see if I've understood this.

(A) Use Google or OpenOffice giving unrestricted access to your files using standard open file formats.

or (B) Use a service that requires MS Office or restricts access to your files and uses non-standard closed proprietary file formats.

Humm, difficult choice.

...the fad of having office packages on-line all about?

I don't want to log onto the internet to draft the letter or two! Just download the OpenOffice/Ability or whatever and then work off-line. Simple!

“‘Online’ services are for organizations with more advanced IT needs where power and flexibility are critical.”

That's an incredibly 1980s viewpoint. Funny, everybody else in the 21st century seems to think that 'online' services are for everybody. Or equivalently, that the set of users with "advanced" IT needs where power and flexibility are critical includes... everybody. Seriously, who doesn't want power and flexibility? And as capitalists, who are Microsoft to distinguish between my wants and my needs?

I do sincerely wish that MS would stop subjecting themselves to irrelevance, if only because their blunders have a way of becoming standards.

It may help sort out the terrible spelling and grammar that seems to be affecting Reg commentators of late! What's the matter, your rage stopping you spell checking your comments? ;-)

You put your card in, type in the number, then the person sitting behind the wall counts out and hands you the money.

Why would anyone do this? I don't just mean Microsoft, but all web based office suites are just rubbish. All Microsoft have done is give you some "free" disk space that you can point Office applications at. I think the point is though you just can't offer anything as complex as a Office suite online unless it's so basic it's almost useless. I don't know why Microsoft are worried, a Dog and Pony show like Google Apps hasn't made any dent in their market share and OpenOffice is a fine product but no one is really using it much. OpenOffice is a fundamentally dated application, even though I use it. There really aren't is anyone seriously competing with Office at the minute.

So what's the difference between this "new" scheme and using Word and Excel locally but saving files to a web-based folder? (I think the latter has been possible since Win2K and WebDAV hasn't it?)

Eh?

Is this a beta release of an april fools joke for next year?

That's what you need, Edlin.

These new-fangled 'word processors' do to words what a food processor does to food, and the result is often as appetising.

(Yes, I have just taken a week to strip 180 different styles from someone else's word doc... does it show?)

. . .what the vole is smoking! They obviously have a corporate supplier for some really great smoke. If they are going to continue business in this fashion, they need to share with the entire class so we, the customer, can at least begin to understand where these idiots are coming from.

google avalble every where.

office fast n stable.

this....niether!

A week? Surely you jest...

Ctrl-A

Ctrl-C

Start > Run > Notepad

Ctrl-V

Job done ;-)

Real men use LaTeX.

... as the famous Samuel Johnson once said. It seems to me that using this online web service is using MS Office on your own PC, with the additional chance of your data being lost.

Apart from slow responsiveness, losing access to your data when your network or their servers go down, and the risk of interception or hacking of your data while it's not under your control, what *other* benefits does this half-baked notion bring?

(And a free hotmail account to the first person to bring up the "But you can access your documents while you're on the move" canard...)

Wonderful feature in Word... Alt+A, then select a style (unless, of course, Word decides it doesn't want to work properly...)

It's simple. They want to store our data on MS servers so that the US DOJ can keep an eye on what everyone's doing without having to bother about the petty things like subpoenas, jurisdiction, privacy, laws etc.

Whats the point?

More buggy stuff to go hopelessly wrong

Sounds like The Black Knight in Monty Python's "The Holy Graille".

I grew up using Wordwise Plus on the BBC Model B, where what you saw on screen made no attempt to replicate what it might look like when printed (in fact, all text editing was done in a 40-column mode to save memory). You were forced to think about the textual content, and not about the layout.

Then someone invented the "WYSIWYG" concept -- and from that moment on, word processing went completely and irreversibly tits-up, as people began to pay more attention to appearance than content. (The final triumph of style over substance came with WordPad, which eschewed sensible-but-mundane stuff such as a spelling checker in favour of the ability to use multiple fonts and text effects. Oh, and NotePad lost the ability -- which DOS EDIT always used to have -- to import unix / Amiga text files with LF line-endings.)

In my last job, I once was tasked with editing a Word document created by someone who evidently didn't understand the difference between a word processor and a fancy typewriter. The whole mess had been laid out using spaces for formatting, randomly-applied bold/underlining/fonts -- and the table of contents was typed by hand. I kid you not, even the header on each page had been typed manually -- and the right-justification on odd-numbered pages done with spaces.

My task was to insert one word into a paragraph. Unfortunately, that extra word caused it to overflow and, as a result, bollocks up the pagination of the *entire* document. I searched for somewhere, anywhere I could perhaps delete a line to compensate, but to no avail. It took me two days to replace all the crude space-formatting and create a *proper* table of contents (which would have survived any future insertions and deletions). All I got to show for it was a ticking-off for taking too long to "just quickly insert one word".

The text editor of real men (unless you have a beard and a predeliction for sandals - in which case 'ex' is the real deal).

Shift-ZZ.

So much simpler than Ctrl-S, Alt-F4.

:q!

Shouldn't that be `Windows Button`-R ?

I think Microsoft is getting scared........

They don't want to be left out of online apps......but want to retain their current client apps monopoly......(have cake and eat it - although they may end up with egg on face!)

Remember how they suddenly realised that the Internet existed?

Google Docs can be prove very useful. Its a quick and easy means of sharing and collaborating on simple documents without worrying what if any office programs are installed.

Definitely not a killer app, but some people including myself find it very useful.

---

My own personal theory is that Microsoft gets a unbearable rectal itch whenever someone to provides a useful product/service that doesn't involve the purchase of Microsoft's software.

The only way to alleviate their maddening discomfort is to recreate the same product /service and tie it to the purchasing of a Microsoft Product.

Terrified by the prospect of their core business collapsing like sand castles when the time comes in, you can almost smell the corporate fear as middle managers are 'tasked' with impossible to achieve goals.

They are SO 1980s with their 'lock-in' thinking.

Fancy going into Beta with a half-baked product with massive ankle chains attached YEARS after other people have launched good honest and simple to use products with NO penalties or traps!

This is just a big admission that the plot has been lost!

"The only way to alleviate their maddening discomfort is to recreate the same product /service and tie it to the purchasing of a Microsoft Product."

David,

Any budding Online/Live Application Architect is bound to tailor their Service for Microsoft to Purchase and/or Rent/Pay as You go/License. Saves Microsoft having to do any work and they get a slice of the cake.

Microsoft said users of its new service can only create or edit online documents if they have Office software already installed on their machines.

Thereby ensuring that they also have Windows installed on their computers!

Wonder if they would even work with 'alternative' browsers?

One born every minute

amanfromMars almost making sense? The end must truly be near!

use an xml editor to produce docbook then msxsl or xsltproc or fop according to which side you bat for. This eliminates _endless_ fiddling with tabs and styles and all the rest of it.

If you need something prettier than docbook can do, get a graphics guy.

He/she/it is making the same amount of sense as ever. When it all starts to become clear it's time to watch out for the men in white coats :)

Not even going to attempt to comment on this new MS wonderproduct, I'll have some of whatever their smoking though.

cheers

1) Google creates GoogleApps

2) Ballmer throws chair against wall and then wants the same app

3) Ballmer talks to Bill and decides to create "MS-Apps"

4) Bill agrees, but requires the full install in order to work

5) Bill has huge "pep rally" to get everyone excited

6) Everyone stares at him in confusion?

7) App fails miserably and Ballmer goes back to step 2

I'm pissed, I really shouldn't drink on a monday but, right now i think this is the best bloody idea ever to come out of microsoft. Splendid.

And if I can do good grammar (and spell it) without a spell checker, then it's only because the paperclip taught me over many years of doing it wrong. Word (that is the application, not the verb...is it a verb, or a noun? it didn't tell me that...) should be installed in all classrooms in place of teachers.

This is all bollocks.

The big question of course: Is it accessible on an iPhone??

"Microsoft said users of its new service can only create or edit online documents if they have Office software already installed on their machines."

That's a bit like requiring someone to purchase a Volvo before they're permitted to ride the Tube, innit?

Shortsighted? Counter-productive? Just downright stupid? Pick three.

“‘Online’ services are for organizations with more advanced IT needs where power and flexibility are critical.”

Some early output from a new Microsoft program: MS IntelliGuff

Of course, the simplest way to insert a single word into a wonky Word document is:

- type a shift-return at the end of the line in question

- shrink the text to horizontal scaling = 95%

- insert the word you want

Screw the table of contents. I have learned that there's never any thanks to be had from clearing up after other people's computer illiteracy.

Sounds as if owning Office allows you to register the ownership in your Live! profile, and thus allowing access to docs online from anywhere. Its less 'having both online+bloat' and more 'you paid us, heres your features'.

Sadly, this has been a plan/plot of M$ for years, with the proliferation of the net & all... But, the thing I find so comical is that their evil plan is being accelerated so they don't get left in the dust by the Open Source crowd... Mark my words, when things finally go critical, you'll see gobs of intellectual property or patent infringement lawsuits originating out of Redmond, or you'll see Bieve (the new entity that was formed when Bill & Steve's lips fused to each others butts) go on a web app publisher purchasing spree. Oh, and I almost forgot, there will be a lot of chair throwing, press leaks about how pissed the MS execs are and a high probability that MS will purchase Oracle just to screw with everybody...

Either way, it's going to be damn funny and in the end we'll get screwed again courtesy of Microsoft.

You are my hero for the day.

Screw the damn lusers.

-daniel

This could work, not because it is competitive when compared to Google Documents for example, but because people are generally stupid.

MS Office just makes anyone who bought it look like an idiot with money to burn and no intelligence. Microsoft's whole business plan relies on the fact that people are stupid.

The same people that will think Microsoft's new service is great will be the same people who embraced the Internet late, and had to buy their domain name for thousands of dollars coz someone smarter got there first.

Microsoft know that their customers are stupid. That is why their OS tells you where to save your files and makes it hard to change things.

So when people are told about Google Documents, they will proudly say, oh I don't need that, I use Microsoft's Office Live for Dummies. It's great coz I can share my docs that I made in my $200 Word processor. Then they will laugh at you and say "man you use Google", what a loser.

This my friend is called the Microsoft Mentality. This mentality has made Microsoft rich.

Bill Gates has duped a lot of people, but people are generally too stupid to see it.

I wasn't in a very good mood this morning, didn't have the best night and then I open Firefox and find this little gem. Hehe, that brightened up my morning.

"users of its new service can only create or edit online documents if they have Office software already installed on their machines" --> that is going to keep me chuckling all day for sure. Come on, what aboslute king of the morons came up with that one. The whole point of having documents in an online app is because it gives you the freedom to create and edit, WHEREVER you are and INDEPENDANT OF THE OS. You get it? That's exactly why Microsoft is never going to be a serious online player, because it clashes with their monopolistic business plan. The freedoms you get from online apps is exactly the freedoms they do NOT want you to have.

But, as someone said in an earlier comment: one born every minute... so this kakamimi plan might of course work for those people.

Thanks for the laugh, I needed that.

Chris.

Loose and lose won't ever show up in a spell check.

"MS Office just makes anyone who bought it look like an idiot with money to burn and no intelligence."

I don't think any home user ever actually *buys* MS Office -- almost every single copy out there is either an OEM preinstall, or pirated.

The honest ones go out, buy a £50 office suite, and it generally serves their needs very well -- until they discover it can't (through nobody's fault but Microsoft's) properly import documents from the latest version of MS Office which their friends have bought preinstalled on their brand-new PCs. At that point, they abandon the "cheap" software and get a pirate copy of MS Office from the bloke down the pub (who genuinely believes he's "sticking it to The Man"; when in actual fact he's promoting Microsoft dependency just as much as Ballmer). Microsoft aren't too bothered by this; at least now this person's using their product, so they might even get another sale of the next Office version (which will break backwards-compatibility again; it's deliberate, it's their version of planned obsolescence) as a preinstall when this PC gets replaced.

And that is how piracy hurts smaller software companies, even when it's not their software that's getting pirated.

I can actually see where they are going with this. It might well be a very smart move ...let me explain:

1. Business users a)know fuck all about IT and b)want their asses covered at all times. So they automatically go to microsoft for their software needs. It's like the old 80's catchphrase "nobody ever got sacked for buying an IBM".

2. Online document editing is all about collaboration. Three people filling in cells on a spreadsheet at once while chatting about it. You don't need macros or VBA or anything more then then most basic data representation. It's really quite useful.

3. Online = insecure. If an important business document gets into the wrong hands because a employees were using google docs the response would be "you prat, you shouldn't have been using google docs for sensitive information in the first place" and maybe "you're fired!". But if it was MS with their activeX IE quality assured and paid for business e-solution, complete with bloated bells and whistles, they would be totally exonerated.

4. The business market is far more important then the domestic market. Much much larger revenues and a huge spillover to employees who then buy the same software for home use.

Businesses don't use unsupported warranty-free freeware. Never have and probably never will. In fact, you could argue that google screwed up here - not taking the opportunity to market docs as a paid for business tool alongside their corporate email service.

"users of its new service can only create or edit online documents if they have Office software already installed on their machines"

So they cannot delete the file?

The web site says that you can use IE 6.0/7.0 or Firefox 2.0 on XP/Server 2003/Vista

or Firefox 2.0 on Mac OS X 10.2.x or higher.

Nowhere does it mention the need to own a copy of Office though....

This sounds horribly like all they are doing is setting up a hosted version of Sharepoint, accessible over the internet. That would be why you need local copies of the Office apps.

For the uninitiated, Sharepoint is an INTRAnet based document sharing back end for MS Office 2007 ... and its an absolute pile of sh*te. It is ugly and clunky, and simply doesn't work in my experience.

Get VMS. You know it makes sense.

Microsoft Office is available for Macs as well as PCs. So from what Andy Taylor says, I assume they're planning to support that. Not that Mac owners would do anything as square as a spreadsheet or write a letter when they could make a 15-minute video and upload it as a vodcast.

Always amuses me to see that people still think formatting text on a computer is somehow automating their office.