I dont mind apples products at all... but if you dont get them when they are hot (just out the door) you'll get stung by a new revision.

Maybe this is a sign the Euro 3G version is on its way?

I say this as a very sceptical euro user... America has used bricks for years when it comes down to mobiles and have not really came close to the models across the pond, in the far east etc...

Jobs wont be able to launch a turd with a silver hat in the UK unless they have some hard power behind it.

My gut feeling is that the iPhone will have muted success in the EU unless it ships with 3G straight off the bat.

Apple may decide to just release the existing Rev 1 version figuring the mindshare will guarantee it a certain level of sales (which they are probably right about). You have to wonder about what effect long term it would have on Apples reputation if they did launch it without a high-speed data connection supporting it.

The mobile market is tougher to crack than the other markets Apple has delved into. iPods are arguably one of the better MP3 players around, Mac OSX does a different (better?) job to Windows & Linux, but as far as mobiles go - Internet, music and third-party "app enabling" is something Windows Mobile and Symbian have been doing for years, and they're had many iterations of demand-led revisions to their software.

The Rev 1 iPhone will sell in healthy numbers in the EU purely due to Apples existing mindshare, but I can't see it ousting the heavyweights that already have 3G, GPS, etc.

That would account for all the ones that Apple BS PR Dept. claimed were sold and AT&T said WEREN'T!

With 65 Documented Bugs and Flaws, geez, that would mean every iPhone is a candidate to be a Piece of Crap.

Good to see the thoughtful comments of Mr Webster Phreaky again, with his catchy mantra of "the iPhone has 65 documented Bugs and Flaws", and his trademark lack of logic.

The iPhone seems to have a pretty high satisfaction rating, which you can ascribe to RDF or whatever, but it does make your assertion look a little desperate. If you really want to slag something off, try the XboX 360, which seem to be redlining all over the place, bokay?

Could you come off the fence with regards to your thoughts on the iphone - from your posts on the subject I can't tell if you're an advocate or not?

;)

When I worked for 3, I used to see the Concession notes for new handsets (basically a long list of faults with stuff like 'fix under developement' and ''risk accepted' on it). I never saw a phone with as few as 65 documented flaws. The Nokia 6280 had about 13 pages.

This development simply reflects the fact that Apple will take your iPhone back if you want, and they won't argue. People get to know this, and some have even bought iPhone with no intention to keep it. You can find many such Apple products for sale on their web site (bottom right corner of UK store front page). Sometimes they are simply overstock near a product's end of life. The really "used" products tend to go out through third parties, so it's not a bad place to buy.

iPhone will do fine in Europe, with or without 3G. If you don't agree, you're standing too close; step back a mile or two and look at the market again.

I assume one of these "refurb" phones is the one Cade Metz returned after his El Reg article. Can I get it?

Yup, 2+2=56, 41, 69 or whatever you want to justify your trolling theories...

"That ten per cent doesn't cover the $100 Apple's losing on the purchase price of a brand-new unit, of course, but it helps."

First of all, I'm not very good at English just yet, but "That ten percent doesn't"?? Shouldn't it be better "Those ten percent don't"? Unless you're implying a "fee" or whatever there... In which case thou art a sneaky bastard!

Anyway, the real point was that Apple is probably not losing $100 at all -- wasn't it that the materials cost $260 or something like that? Plus other costs (marketing, blah, blah), I guess it still would not get to the $400 or $500 asked for the refurbs... Or would it? If it doesn't, then they're not *losing* anything, just profiting a less. Or something.