Personally i think that's a pretty fair opinion piece.

Let the outpouring of grief, hatred, denial and vitriol commence!

/Battens down hatches

Seriously, what's the point? Apple now sells a phone that seems to be much less of a PITA than all the established makers could offer after countless generations of everchanging buggy interfaces and shoddy button layouts, and Apple is brilliant at marketing their stuff. Duh, surprise. It's still a phone in the end of the day, and it's not for everyone. Duh, surprise. Would you please try and write on something relevant?

Some you guys that write for the Reg are simply gluttons for punishment. Or perhaps you're fiendishly sadistic, I can't decide which.

Who will take a "but Windows" bet? I bet that more fanboyz bring up irrelevant Windows blather than simply calling the author a jerk for having the temerity to criticise an Apple product.

Yes I know it was constructive criticism, but that has no bearing on the fact Windows has malware.

My Jobs, he even had the gall to suggest another product can do some of the things the iPhone does more efficiently. When making statements like that, how can you not mitigate the iPhone's failings by pointing out Windows crashes on a regular basis? And of course by 'failings' we mean things that only idiots would want their phones to do.

So next time you feel like being critical of an Apple product, make sure you've properly considered just not doing things you can't get to work on the iPhone. Until you've explored all the possibilities, such as using a Mac instead of a Windows box, you're just being stupid. Next you'll be asking to carry a spare battery instead of tying your phone to an electrical outlet or leaving it at home to charge. What fool wants to do something like use their phone to make more calls than Apple thinks is necessary?

As evidence of your biased claims against the iPhone you seriously linked to a blog where the author HAS NOT USED AN IPHONE, yet feels free to compare it to the Treo he owns?

Talk about reality distortion field.

This is release 1.0 of the iPhone. The fastest selling phone in history.

Deal with your envy.

As to the network operators...in the USA they definately need to be brought to heel as Apple has done. They constantly hamstring phone features (Verizon and the V710 anyone?) in order to force their customers down their monitization guantlet of greed.

Generation 1 of the iPhone is not the be all end all feature wise.

But look at what Apple had to deal with in terms of network carriers here!

The networks are 3g everywhere in the US as they are in Europe or Asia. And the US featuresets are more limited here as well. Things like LBS are still pretty much a joke among the carriers and expensive to boot.

And yet...how many iPhones did Apple sell in those first 3 days?

Sounds like sour grapes on your part.

... before a swarm of Apple Fanboi's!

I think that this piece was a good overview of the phone market as for a mobile phone has to be simple to use and has to function well at voice and sms, something which the iphone seems to struggle with compared to some nokia phones.

well i'm not too fussed about the web on a phone only use it occasionally, and have an mp3 player for music, but i think on a phone it has this function it has to be easy to use and this is where the iphone is good but i don't by mobiles for music capability over the basics. the basics and the price have to right.

While your remark, "The Mac UI appeared at a time of character mode interfaces where even getting the simplest job done required considerable investment and study. Computers at the time had several problems with accessibility, interoperability, and general ease-of-use - not to mention getting any kind of print-quality graphics work done - and the Mac provided an elegant interface to them all," is technically true, the *only* thing that established the Mac in business was hype - and pre-existing familiarity with the Apple brand. The Atari ST and Commodore Amiga both offered a vastly-superior UI to the IBM PC (and Atari's was even based on the same Graphics Environment Manager which underlay Apple's Mac UI), but neither of them had the brand recognition of Apple - which was brought about by Apple donating hundreds of thousands of Apple II PCs to schools - nor the budget for a media blitz.

I'm no Apple fanboi - I wouldn't have an iPhone if it were given to me gratis - but one thing Jobs does very well is hype. And, after all, the brainless yuppies need their bling; the iPhone meets that need very well, as the most expensive iPod available.

NFT.

Article makes a few fair points and i was thinking much the same thing as to how the touchscreen would make things harder anyway. I spose this goes some way to explaining why people would buy one, which i won't.

It does look shiny though... maybe all the people who buy apple products have ADD or something, now that would explain it all!

... on the one hand, the iPhone is "an answer to a problem that doesn't really exist".

On the other hand, other phones are "overly crufty and complicated".

You've defeated your own point.

It was me, Tim C. Ryan's my boss. But thanks for the mention anyway, Andrew. ;)

Does this mean I should end my genetic experiment to cross-pollinate a Mac user with a Scientologist to produce the world's most pompous asshole?

This article sounds like it's comming from someone trying hard to shake the embarresment of shitcanning the iphone before it was released.... Now, trying desperately to regain some credibility.

It takes a fairly strong "reality distortion field" to get *tech savy* people to drop that much $$$ on a new phone... on a network with such a bad rep... etc etc. I have read review after review, where people rave about the iphone, not based on hype, but practicle experience.

Your "analysis" of the interface is so laughable. Please, Windows mobile prepared the market beautifully for the iphone, lowering everyones expectations. Finally a decent interface comes along and BOOM, look at the pent up demand for something that works 'nicely'.

That "illusion of unquenchable demand" by the way, turned out to be the reality of the phone market.

Sure, as it currently stands local knowledge often wins when it comes to bars etc... but clearly the device has more potential than that... ever heard of Digg.com or delicious?? social nets are growing and a device like this is perfectly placed to extend that growth to the "local knowledge" you are so fond of.

I still have my phone from 1999. Why? It still works, no worries. No, it doesn't do anything fancy. But it still works, no worries. It still does that top-three killer app: voice. I don't need something "better," and certainly I don't feel a need to be blessed by either Gates or Jobs.

Is that my BACKUP PHONE (the one I have sitting on the side in case I drop my primary phone in the toilet) which comes with such features as "A screen" and "Sticky stuff on the buttons." features better voice quality and easier SMS. It's a crap CDMA Nokia candybar from the late 90's. My primary phone, a crap Samsung CDMA flipphone (A870 if you're familiar) beats the living piss out of the iPhone in both those areas.

And I *HAVE* used an iPhone. For whatever reason, we have a budget in IT earmarked towards buying Apple kit. We service... Uh, 2 macs. Period. So we bought an iPhone with it. It broke on day 3.

"Does this mean I should end my genetic experiment to cross-pollinate a Mac user with a Scientologist to produce the world's most pompous asshole?"

this is called incest/inbreeding, and is illegal in most countries.

;)

Of course, like most electronic gadgets the iPhone fill a need that doesn't exist. Why is that a surprise?

It was the media who generated all the hype of the iPhone, all be it with a little push from Apple. If you look at the media spend by Apple it is very little compared to the coverage the media chose to devote to it.It seems that now the media is fighting the monster it created and now some seem amazed that people actually listened and want to buy it.

A much more interesting article about the iPhone would have been how Apple managed to sucker the media into such a frenzy!

regardless of the fact that the iPhone is the fastest selling phone in AT&Ts history -as you point out it might all be that hype that only the media can whip up, same hype that has been selling the iPod for the last 6 years which doesn't show any signs of slowing down....

ok let's start this over.

consider the facts:

- The Apple design department is arguably the best in the world, in any industry.

- Phones are status symbols so looks are extremely important

Those two facts would tell you that Apple is in the mobile phone market to stay. To rule.

then there are other facts:

- Apple has a real operating system which beats the pants off of symbian or win mobile, which can do things the others can only dream about

- Apple has the imagination to invent new things that people actually want

- Apple has proven that they can make a working phone. Entering a new market is a huge risk and a huge effort, but it's already behind them. They will only get better after that.

Yes, the other manufacturers are running around like headless chickens. Because they should. But I believe they have the problem that they have nothing to compete with OS X. Symbian just doesn't cut it - they will have to develop something entirely new, either improve Symbian like crazy, or get Microsoft to make a Vista Mobile edition (thereby selling their soul to MS).

Frankly, given the ineptitude these companies have handled software in the past, I think their best bet is a radical improvement of Windows mobile - and you know you are in trouble if Microsoft is your last hope.

I see only one flaw in Apple's mobile business - being too greedy and wanting a cut of the operator's income. It worked with AT&T but that's because AT&T really needs the iPhone, it won't work with (many) others, and it has the potential to severely hamper Apple. If I had to bet, I'd say Apple will adapt and get over this though.

A typical El REg Apple product analysis by all accounts:

It looks shiny and pretty - must be for wankers, how dare they not make it look like it just came out of a dogs ass

It has internet access - mobile internet access? who would use that anyway, there's no need for it unless your socially handicapped..

it provides access to maps - Maps?? What's wrong with you, can't you ask someone for directions? Strangers are friends you just haven't met yet, silly!

The iPhone has its problems and for some people is just plainly the wrong choice of handset, but for gods sake register; get over yourself.

All the Apple bashing in the world won't do anything except to discredit articles in which The Register might need to highlight something geniunely negative about Apple. You know, basically operate like The Reg does with any other company.

Well, I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this article. Since I actually own an iPhone, it will be MY opinion that we'll be listening to right now.

I heard a rumor last year that Apple was coming out with a cell phone and it would be released on the Cingular network. I've tried Sprint and Verizon and HATED both of them. The only thing worse than the cell service was the customer service! Since my crappy Verizon Motorola phone was nothing to smile about I left Verizon for Cingular and bought an unbranded Sony Ericsson w810i for a little over $400 (they were asking $600 for it at the Sony store and Cingular didn't carry the phone at the time). By the way, Cingular (now AT&T) had been absolutely wonderful. They are the nicest, most polite people to deal with, it's really kind of strange. I also have dropped a call yet and it's been 11 1/2 months and I've traveled quite a bit with the phone.

The w810i is a decent phone. It has good battery life and some decent features but the software interface is a piece of crap (and the music app couldn't possible suck more)! There are just too many problem to get into here but a simple example would be...

You can add Java apps to the phone. Very nice. The built in web browser sucks to high heaven so I downloaded Opera Mini. Works nicely, unfortunately, it takes about 13 steps to launch the Opera Mini web browser (WAY to many IMHO). Well you can program you own shortcuts on the phones various buttons but unfortunately Sony Ericsson only lets you create shortcuts to the main menu level, which doesn't save you ANY steps (you can press the center button for quick access to the main menu so why would I need to make another button that takes me to the same spot).

I could go on and on all day with things I hate about my expensive Sony Ericsson phone (it does take nice photos in good light though), but the only thing I have found that I DO NOT like about the iPhone is the lack of A2DP Bluetooth. Everything else about it is almost like a dream come true. It is magical to use it's so simple. I use Google Maps all the time, and I can't tell you how nice it is to have a real web browser that syncs bookmarks with my desktop machine.

It's just a fantastic phone. I love it! No 3G? Who cares? There isn't any 3G network where I live anyway and it would just suck my battery down.

So before you go spouting your mouth off about a phone you've probably never seen or held, maybe you should actually spend some time with one. They aren't the end-all, be-all of cell phones, but they are a wonderfully designed and executed product that fits the niche it was designed for perfectly.

how many of the ifone sales were actually to journalists of technical news sites?

Now as you know, I'm a calm, reasoned chappy who doesn't throw himself into debates like this.... But I had to respond to Andy's post:

"Your "analysis" of the interface is so laughable. Please, Windows mobile prepared the market beautifully for the iphone, lowering everyones expectations. Finally a decent interface comes along and BOOM, look at the pent up demand for something that works 'nicely'."

Hold the phone (ba-dum tish!). Are you saying the WinMobile interface is crap? Before you answer that, let me remind you that the "Start Menu" interface came in with Win95 and was so hilariously successful that not only is it still in use, but a very popular Linux desktop system is based on it. And when they developed a mobile device, they used this same familiar, useful interface (which works), and that's crap? Does it need to be shiny, or is useful enough?

Don't get me wrong - I am not a fan of Microsoft by any means. But the start menu system works. The WInMobile interface works. I click a button and file explorer opens, I browse to a file, I tap it, it opens. No, it's not exciting or flashy, but it does its job remarkably well.

On the iPhone, I click a category, the menu morphs into something else, I click a file, the menu flips over, fades in and out, performs a line dance, gives a lecture on male llama post-coital rituals, then tells me it doesn't support the requested file format.

Function over form, not the other way around. I've said it a million times - my WinMobile device does everything the iPhone does, plus more, does it well, and costs less. I've found too many times that flashy interfaces equal a lack of functionality or end up slowing you down and becoming irritating. I don't want Vista on my mobile any more than I want it on my desktop, and the same goes for Apple.

Being the happy owner of an Atari ST, I really appreciated Morely Dotes comments. The Atari ST at the time was not only technically superior in every way, but so much cheaper! That really shows the power of hype and marketing.

Now it's happening all over again: a technically obsolete phone (I mean EDGE and a 2.0MP camera, you gotta be kidding!!!) selling at an outrageous price is beating down the competition.

I'm getting increasingly tired of those fashion victims driving the market. Eventually, companies willing to sell technically advanced products at a fair price will give up and invest all their resources in marketing rather than R&D.

ok, it's good to see an fair opinion, but have you people yet realised that this phone CANNOT have the same impact on the mobile phone market that iPod did with mp3 players.

the simple undeniable fact is that it is a smart phone, tell me, what is the biggest selling phones in the market today, with almot 99% of the market it is your bog standard simple text, camera & sms phone. nothing flashy, they don't have anything beyond a simple UI (i mean why even start a windows vs mac argument there, geez).

Smart phones do not have any impact upon the mobile phone market whatsoever, so unless apple do plan to stick a cell pack into an ipod mini then all this worthless banter is just that, worthless.

you cannot talk about how much impact this phone is having when you look at the market itself, the overall impact is as neglible as a gnats wing compared to an eagles

Nice to see you have focused on the market a bit more in this article.

Shame you mentioned the iPhone, I think with a bit of thinking you could have used another example just to avoid the distress you have caused to the Apple fanbase.

@Greg - I completely agree, someone that speaks the langauge of reality.

" I don't want Vista on my mobile any more than I want it on my desktop, and the same goes for Apple." the comment that I would consider ends all arguements.

OS's are now like politicians, there all wankers and just as bad as each other.

@Andy Bright : Stupid users install stupid programs hence your winbox crashes, try removing your porn dialers.

If it's 3G in Europe I'm getting an iphone, even if that makes me a "pompous asshole". I've played with one and it suits my needs better than my current phone.

An Apple Bashing A Day Makes El Reg Happy In the Pants?

This feels like tall poppy syndrome or something going as a result of the level of hype currently surrounding Apple's products.

Not that they don't deserve to be criticised as they do praised, but this is starting to come across as 'Fair and Balanced' as Fox News...

*Awaits the childish fanboi Wintel drones going OMG How Can You Not Put Apple Down They Suck!!!*

WTF , who gives a Rats A!

But as with all Apple fan boys they are blinded by the same company that ripped off "The Beatles" logo , and they don't invent things and repackage other peoples idea's and concepts as their own!

Choices! , more is a pity they didn't go down with the " HMHS Britannic" , what price blind stupidity indeed?

Another attempt by the Reg to drive traffic to its site by writing some poor and uninsightful commentary about a certain iPhone.

The fanboys go flamin wild, as the reg chuckles to itself 'we can claim this as part of our readership'.

I've dealt with the reg before, you take a view and stick to it dogmatically, facts tend to be irrelevant.

Basically, you've got a successful product on your hands, that is a triumph of design and usability for services that have been around for ages.

The device is good for the industry as well as the consumer, as handset manufacturers realise they can't get away with being fastest to market with hardware with zero user experience capabilities on software.

Now move on.

Err, what makes someone an Apple fan boy? Is owning an ipod and liking it enough? And what makes someone a fanatic? Is insulting someone who doesn't have the same fanatical opinions as you enough?

"Analysts have been warning Apple for years that the iPod risked going the way of the starting handle after the invention of automatic ignition."

So when exactly was "Automatic Ignition" invented? I can't say I've ever heard of it..

He must be, he can work WinMobile, differentiating microscopic icons that all look alike and selecting them with eagle's precision... seriously, WinMobile was made so people slavishly adapted to the Win desktop metaphor catastrophy would find it familiar. I've seen it. It is far from being intuitive or even adequate in a portable, pen operated device. Noticing that I am here talking about a person who is fascinated by the messy bloat that is the START menu for the sole reason that it "works", apparently high praise in the Win arena, I can pretty much understand his point though. In the real world, one should apply high praise to MS for being able to get even a single WinMobile device into customers hands, as one had not expected people to have as little self respect as it takes to endure Windows on their phone as well.

If we apply the principles laid out in the article, then all premium brands would simply shut down.

A Kia does exactly the same job as a Mercedes S500

In fact, taken to the extreme, the argument ends up in a place called Communism. A leap, I know, to say that people who don't buy Apple products are all communists (and I'm not actually saying it).

but squint with your eyes, and let your mind run free (a tricky concept for Windows users, I know) and you'll see the argument.

now excuse my while I go off to blather and dribble saliva down my shirt front in a dark corner somewhere

;-)

Yet another iPhone article.

And where's the meat? Where's the backing of the piece?

"When 'God Machines' go back to their maker'

Does this mean that shocking statistics have been released for iPhone returns?

No?

Blah.

I'm not interested.

Really ... who give's a toss?

It's a phone .... that's all.

iPhone [sucks|rules]

Blah blah Apple blah blah media hype blah blah blah Steve Jobs is [God|Satan] blah blah touch-screen interface blah blah Nokia blah blah blah repeat for several more paragraphs. Paris Hilton blah blah blah blah sex with a goat.

Comments:

I carnally love Apple and all you Windows users are lamerzzzz

iPhone sucks ass and so do all the fanbois

Repeat several times daily until some new news comes along.

When the iPhone arrives in the UK, I WILL GET ONE if ...

It's not too expensive

It gives me unlimited internet access (as in US)

It's G3

It uses an operator I trust and which has

a reasonable customer 'service' (remember that concept?)

and

It doesn't tie me in to a contract for too long.

Why?

Because it's wizzy* of course and it will really piss off the anti-Apple trolls.

* Wizzy - a technical term used by Apple Fanboys to confound non-Apple users (who are, let's face it, easily confounded and confused)!

the article seems to suggest that a large proportion of the hundreds of thousands of iPhones that were sold are being returned - but the proof offered is another poorly written ElReg article that was also trying to be sensational that describes how one of the Reg's own writers and they tech guy weren't impressed with it (hardly unbiased journalism) and the vauge comment from an Apple store employee that "several" other people had returned their iPhones.

so that's maybe, what, 10 that have been returned?

"that these machines are beginning to shuffle back to their maker (returning the product within 14 days of purchase may cost you $111.87- but saves you over $2,000 in operator fees) - it's time to ask some serious questions."

You're referencing another Reg article as your evidence? Bloody hell, Andrew, don't you disappear up your own fundament over the iPhone too - we've already seen half of the Reg staffers succumb.

I'm willing to put money on a very large percentage of the iPhone returns being from people planning to resell them on eBay to make money who didn't have the money to spend in the first place, and gambled on the iPhone to make a quick buck. Unfortunately for them, Apple had enough inventory - it's like the PS3 launch, where Sony had initial launch sales greater than Wii and Xbox 360 purely because they had brought in enough units to sell (even then, some areas of the press called it a flop because they hadn't sold out!).

As for the remarks about the ST and Amiga being credible alternatives; the Amiga wasn't really on the ball until 1987 - three years after Macintosh - and the ST was utterly laughable to work with. Some ST DTP packages were alright if you wanted to persevere, but trust me - our firm was at the forefront of that technology, the first "small" publisher in the UK using DTP (Today Newspapers was the first large one) - and I had an ST as well partly, I suspect, out of curiosity to see how it compared.

Apple's iPhone will offer improvements, but it also doesn't deliver the promises it claims - HTC's hardware combined with T-Mobile's "Web 'n' Walk" plans have been giving EU (and I believe US) users "The Internet in your pocket" or whever for a long time; the HTC Athena/Ameo offers similar storage, 3G connection, GPS, WiFi etc, and costs only about twice as much as the iPhone off contract (iPhones are not subsidised - you own the phone when you buy it).

If you want an iPhone without AT&T's TCO burden, then cancel the AT&T contract within 14 days, as I believe I read here as well as in various other places. It's yours, not the networks, so resell it, stick a Prepay AT&T SIM in it and pop it on eBay for a sensible amount or use it without the contract costs.

...42 Create Super Ego/Alter Ego IntelAIgents.

heystoopid,

Some would tell you that everything has already been invented and it is just a case of finding it/reinventing it again .... God is a concept and all that stuff. Apple Beatles Territory to a T.

Now if Apple were to plug their iPhone into a Dedicated Ethereal Network as a Very Important Personal Communicator, the Facility would allow an Intelligently Designed Network to tailor Intelligent Feeds/Business Intelligence to ITs Needs with Others having to compete with other Intelligent Feeds or plug into the Virtual Apple Machinery Protocol for Beta IntelAIgents....... creating a whole new Genre of CyberIntelAIgents in an Alternate Reality Game being Played for Real, Virtually.

It is not a difficult thing to do if you are well versed in the Simple Complexities of AIResearch and dDevelopment for Global Operating Devices.

Atari's user interface is NOT "based on" anything to do with Apple. It's got a passing similarity, but Apple did not use Graphics Environment Manager, and the two are VERY different in terms of capability.

GEM isn't even remotely close to Apple's System software.

The ST, popular as it was, was a rush-job based on reference hardware and existing technology after Tramiel stupidly turned down the Lorraine concept that became Amiga.

I'm not bashing the ST here; I had one then and I have one now. It simply is not related to the Macintosh, other than being a fairly obvious copy (partly down to the fact that this is where computers were going anyway, but electronically, the ST is enough of a Mac "clone" that you can bung Mac ROMs in the cartridge slot and only a small amount of code is required to make it into a better Mac than Apple produced - if you only want to consider available screen real estate, rather than whether or not the mouse feels like it was made by V-Tech, or the keyboard is sprung with tired latex gloves).

"A much more interesting article about the iPhone would have been how Apple managed to sucker the media into such a frenzy"

...but that's the weird thing - Jobs doesn't seem to try any harder than any other CEO/salesman when he pitches his new wares, they tech media just go absolutely nuts over the product whether it's great (iPhone) or distinctly mediocre (AppleTV). The essential problem now seems to be that Apple operates much like any other large CE/ computer company as regards keynotes and advertising, but the world of sameness (whether Windows or Symbian based) that characterises most CE/computer announcements throws Apple's somewhat different products into sharp relief.

Of course, the insecure (call them fanboys, anti-fanboys if you wish) interperet all this as some kind of vast conspiracy, and accuse Apple of creating junk products merely to try and bolster their self-worth, but the fact remains that Apple is just knocking out product after product with a BIT more style and a BIT more functionality here and there, and the design-starved market (and their press) treat it like manna from heaven.

What's sad isn't Apple's performance, but the performance of companies like Nokia, Microsoft and Motorola. Those fuckers let us down at every opportunity. Nokia N95 free with a contract? Sounds like the right price at last for that particular technological car-crash.

So what. It's hardly an achievement to sell this well when the US phone market is so utterly backwards. The US never had phones like the Nokia 7650, which was years ahead of it's time, 5 years ago it can do more than the iPhone does now and in some cases better. Granted it lacks the modern megapixels and storage space but those are to be expected, when a phone could run Doom perfectly including multiplayer via Bluetooth 5 years ago, something iPhone users could only dream of it really does show how backwards the iPhone and the US phone market are.

The iPhone has a great UI, erm well again, so what? My grandma can use a mobile phone and kids certainly don't struggle to use them you only have to go to a school of any age range to see kids quite happily using them, if these people are using them fine then what use is a new UI that if anything would force these people to relearn how to use their phone?

The iPhone is for the US market, it's arguable that there's some truth in the "dumb yanks" argument when suggesting a new UI is required to make phones useable as mobile uptake in Asia and Europe is certainly higher than anyone could hope for over the last 10 years. It really does seem the iPhone's success is based on America's stupidity thus far, again, where the achievement exactly?

The "facts you bang on about are just statements, no factual evidence at all..

>>consider the facts:

>>- The Apple design department is arguably the best in the world, in any industry.

OK i'll give you that one sto start.... they do have good designers.

>> - Phones are status symbols so looks are extremely important

Only to sad losers... Phones are phones for making..."Phone calls" so thats not a "FACT"

>> - Apple has a real operating system which beats the pants off of symbian or win mobile, which can do things the others can only dream about

Are you talking about a mobile OS? I donlt think it does "beat the pants off" symbian.... Sweeping statement, not a fact...

>> - Apple has the imagination to invent new things that people actually want

Im what way is the Iphone NEW. It offers nothing new to joe public that any "smart" phone from the last 2 years could do. They used to be pretty creative, but with the iPhone, they are just trying to jump on the "Smartphone" band wagon and hope to keep some of the iPod market tat would have been lost by ppl using other smartphones. And that will probably work. so thats not a fact either.

So, 1 out of 4 for your facts.

Realistically, yes I think the iphone will be a success for the sad losers who do need a status symbol over functionality... and I hope teh next gen of iphone does get better and add more features... nokia etc al need a kickin the pants to get them designing decent phones again...

Otherwise give my my n73 anyday (and that was free, not x hundred dollers)

When Tarantino released 'Jackie Brown' many were shocked to see that far from being another 'Pulp Fiction' it was just quite a good film. The only thing that defines the iphone is that it is marketed by Apple and has an 'i' in it. All the rest is just unbelievably tedious hype. If a smaller/less regarded/notorious manufacturer put out something resembling this product then they would receive significant kudos. But, as we are talking about Apple, the iphone has to be the most exciting and revolutionary product since the combustion engine. Its not, it doesn't re-define anything. It is just another quite good phone in a saturated market. The vast majority of people who purchase the iphone merely do so to become part of a faux-exclusive club. And those who do so on the product's own merit will have to live with the stigma.

Besides which, when it gets to the UK - doubtless with huge fanfare and much camping outside 'exclusive outlets' - the iphone will become the most stolen consumer device of all time, a kind of holy grail for theives, chavvies and chancers. I can just see the headlines now...and it makes me feel tired inside. Not withstanding all the pathetic spin-off peripherals vying for a share of the gadget-conscious moron's cash.

The Apple iphone: balls to it.

Wintel fanbois remind me of Republicans. Happy to criticise, but can't take any criticism. Can see fault in others but see no fault in their own.

From a large proportion of the comments i've seen from people who like Apple products here i've seen them both acknowledge strengths and weaknesses of Apple products. I do not see the same from those who prefer Windows products.

They also seem to be under some misinformed illusion that Apple users see the company as infalable or flawless. I personally don't know a single user of Apple products who holds this attitude, yet this is what Wintel fanbois keep saying is the case.

Too much empassioned blind sighted ranting on here lately, and not enough discussion of points in a more level headed manner. Actually citing real life examples/references, rather than saying how their best mates friends brothers kids pet dog used an Apple product, and how terrible Apple are as a company for releasing something so horrid.

--------------

Or, you may suffer from a crippling social condition where it's simply too terrifying to ask someone for directions.

--------------

Like being male you mean? That's ~ 50% of the world's population you're talking about there, pretty big potential market on that basis alone!

"- Apple has the imagination to invent new things that people actually want"

LOL. Let me see...

Original Apple GUI - copied from Xerox

OS X - essentially a copy of BSD

iPod - it's an mp3 player, so they didn't invent it

iPhone - it's a mobile phone, I think they've been seen before

So what have they invented? Oh yeah a button that's also a wheel, oooh!

Well done Andrew and indeed all Reg hacks, it finally dawns on me... Picture the scene in Vulture HQ.

"Hey guys, people seem to be getting pretty wound up about this iPhone thing, have you read the comments?"

"Yeah, look, I got more than you!"

"Oh yeah? Well lets see what they say after _this_ piece!"

And so the office competition was born. Prizes for most comments, best flame, most number of commentors who didn't read the article, most iFans, longest post... The list goes on!

Keep it up Reg, these sections always make me chuckle!

"Or, you may suffer from a crippling social condition where it's simply too terrifying to ask someone for directions. Or you may have no friends and simply like playing with toys."

I'd guess that pretty much describes the whole population of Jobs' drooling legions of fanboys, really.

Ok let's start this over.

>>> Yes, let's...

consider the facts:

>>> What you meant to type here was "shut up and listen to my opinion".. big difference between your opinion and fact I am afraid.

- The Apple design department is arguably the best in the world, in any industry.

>>> Arguably is a good word because I can think of a whole bunch of people who would. If you mean Graphics Design (the art of making things look pretty) then please state Graphics Design. This is a tech website, therefore "Design Dept" usually means Technical Design ie Engineering (Hard or Soft), and trust me, Apple do NOT have the best Dept in that respect. If they did, no one would be able pick any holes in the iHype, I mean iPhone.

- Phones are status symbols so looks are extremely important

>>>To a certain market yes, to others no. Stop generalising.

Those two facts would tell you that Apple is in the mobile phone market to stay. To rule.

>>>They would be if they were true. Personally I reckon yes, sad to say, Apple is here to stay, but not as a major player.

then there are other facts:

- Apple has a real operating system which beats the pants off of symbian or win mobile, which can do things the others can only dream about

>>> Ok, can't comment on this, my field is hardware.

- Apple has the imagination to invent new things that people actually want

>>> No, Apple has the PR Dept to create the hype to convince people they want what Apple is selling. Big difference

- Apple has proven that they can make a working phone. Entering a new market is a huge risk and a huge effort, but it's already behind them. They will only get better after that.

>>> Well, no, the tech articles all agree that it's not a terribly good phone.

Yes, the other manufacturers are running around like headless chickens. Because they should.

>>>Gotta disagree, I don't exactly think Sony and Nokia are quaking in their boots.

I see only one flaw in Apple's mobile business - being too greedy and wanting a cut of the operator's income. It worked with AT&T but that's because AT&T really needs the iPhone, it won't work with (many) others, and it has the potential to severely hamper Apple. If I had to bet, I'd say Apple will adapt and get over this though.

>>>The flaws have been discussed to death (greed is just one of 'em), but there are three Camps.. Rabid Pro Apple, Rabid Anti Apple and the 3rd camp, the one I am most happy sat in, the "Couldn't really give a monkies who made it, is it any good?" camp.

Oh, and Rhett? We've all got to drop everything and only listen to you?? Go away. We're all entitled to have our own opinions. Some of us inherently prefer a product to do something we want. Fine if iHype does it for you, but it doesn't do it for everyone. For a bunch of us it's a dismal piece of pretty fluff.

<rant mode off>

No it isn't!! That's very clearly a "hidden goatse".

If that's the future of mobile phones, be very very afraid!

Blackberry for me, thanks, but then secure email is mroe important to me. The Blackberrys are decent phones and excellent mini-PDAs, but other people tell me they hate them because they don't suit their requirements. An Apple iPhone just doesn't meet my requirements, so there is no way I would spend the rediculous price and contract for one. Just my two cents....

The iPod was (and is) more expensive than other mp3 players of similar specs, and in some ways inferior (what file formats it can play, for example). Yet it was a runaway sucess. Why? Well, most people don't care about file formats, it was pretty much AS GOOD AS any other player functionality wise, and the UI was, compared to most other players of that era, astounding.

problem is, the iPhone isn't functionally as good as other phones. The camera doesn't matter - all phone cameras give mediocre results regardless - but no MMS? That's quite laughable.

It has a brilliant UI for browsing - but isn't 3G. You can't talk about how great the UI is and dismiss that at the same time.

It does wifi - well, that's great. If i'm in my house - a place where I have computers ANYWAY - I can get a fast net connection!

It can play mp3s, but only has 8Gb memory. I can't fit my music on that, and I have no desire to swap stuff around. And I could get a sony ericsson for do to that, at a vastly reduced price, if I so desired.

As it is, I'll stick to a separate mp3 player and a smaller, better featured, phone, and save myself wads of cash

First, Andrew, you're pretty much spot-on with your analysis. Reality is hype these days, so if Apple's genius is making it work for them - BULLY! GOOD SHOW!

Now to the points.

Andrew touched on the *REAL* reason Apple made such a splash with the original Macintosh - Desk Top Publishing. What needed a bit more emphasis was that Apple not only introduced the UI and tools that gave you a true WYSIWYG environment, but it introduced the PRINTERS that let this get taken off-line - critically important back in those days. Both the Apple dot matrix printer and their laser printer were superlative and completely coupled to the Macintosh display. *THAT* was what gave them the win over MS-DOS and the nascent Windows environment - not the computers in the schools stuff (that came later...).

Secondly, and more importantly, buying a cell phone is very much like buying a house, much more so than most people ever realize. The really critical items in a house are the "little things" - like having enough hot water for all the morning showers, enough closet space for clothes and storage, enough electric outlets to not require all the power strips from your local Radio Shack to get stuff plugged in...get the picture? A cell phone *MUST* do what *YOU* need well - voice, some data, maybe pictures and music.

Just like a house, however, it takes several iterations of ownership or rental to *REALLY* understand what is important to YOU. Not what some designer *THINKS* is important. Learning that you need an electric outlet every two meters takes several houses to realize, as does closet space, multiple water heaters, a really BIG refrigerator location, etc.

A cell phone is the same way. It took me and my company nearly 10 years to truly identify what we needed in a phone, and involved ownership of 10 devices to prove out the needs and prioritize them. Network coverage, Bluetooth headset and handsfree, voice quality, email (not SMS), easy to use one-handed interface, a good web browser (Opera Mobile/Mini), a couple of easy, mindless games, an OK camera, Bluetooth A2DP and storage for 4 hours of music (airplane flight time) - in that order. Now it's easy for us to find good devices at reasonable prices - because we (our company staff) know what we need.

Oh, and PRACTICE! I use maps and location services on my phone regularly. It's not totally intuitive or "easy" to use, but I (and my staff) actually practice using the tools we need, working out shortcuts and presets to support them. This also allows us to evaluate a new device easily, to see if we're sacrificing something that is higher priority for something that is not. So now we can all use the tools we need with skill.

So, as far as the iPhone goes...I don't know yet. I'm going to play with one this weekend, though, and will report back one of these posts...

oh wait, it's Andrew Orlowski writing “jolly rubbish” again. The same one who can’t notice his own contradictions. The same one who's excuse is "…I had to rush to a meeting and my article was written in haste…."

Hey Andrew, maybe writing in El Reg isn't your typical “gift” from the sky. Your article is as pointless as most “rants” written on behalf of El Reg about the iPhone. Absolutely pointless.

And please, quit pretending that you're a visionary for the entire mobile phone industry. It makes your "analysis" seem quite cheesy.

I should seriously start boycotting El Reg.

Repeat after me..

IT'S JUST A BLOODY PHONE.

Yes it looks good, yes it's a hype magnet, yes it has some innovation, yes it has some flaws, yes it's expensive but after all that IT'S STILL JUST A BLOODY PHONE.

"He must be, he can work WinMobile, differentiating microscopic icons that all look alike and selecting them with eagle's precision... "

What the heck? Excepting the wee quick-recall ones at the top of the WinMobile 5 start menu, the icons are a perfectly fine size, and I never have a problem hitting the right one. Perhaps you need an eye exam? Or perhaps you need a device with a screen bigger than an inch across?

"seriously, WinMobile was made so people slavishly adapted to the Win desktop metaphor catastrophy would find it familiar. I've seen it. "

Oh, you've seen it? That's nice. I've been using it for 3 years. It works. If it didn't work, I'd hurl the phone back at the manufacturer and go get something else. I don't just go with the brand. My DAP is an iAudio, not an iPod.

"It is far from being intuitive or even adequate in a portable, pen operated device."

Uh-huh. It was at this point I realised you were talking complete rubbish. It's intuitive to anyone who has ever used Windows, which is...well, let's be honest...everyone. It supports 3rd party apps, is surprisingly configurable, and in the latest revisions is gobsmackingly stable. No, really! All it's missing is an easily accessible task manager, IMO. Going through a start menu entry to switch programs is a bit of a bitch.

If the one you "saw" was from years back, then yeah, I'll concede that it wasn't as good. It was unstable, the control panel was a bit messed up in places, but in recent years it's come a long way. I got a WinMobile 5 device back in April and it hasn't crashed yet.

"Noticing that I am here talking about a person who is fascinated by the messy bloat that is the START menu for the sole reason that it "works", apparently high praise in the Win arena,"

The start menu is "messy bloat?" Hold on a second...

*Grabs his tablet*

Contacts, Messages, Organiser, Call reg, Pics and Vids, Running Programs, Other Programs, System Settings. Oh, and a really handy set of icons for recently used programs.

Holy crap, that's bloated... I mean, that certainly doesn't contain 90% of the stuff you do with a phone.

What would you prefer? A system where that menu is a screen all of its own? That I have to go back to (losing focus from my current program) every time I want to do something else? Phht. Any other interface that allowed for quick multitasking would just be the start menu in fancy pants.

I can't believe I'm actually singing the praises of an MS product, but TBH it really is the best I've found on smartphones, and make no mistake, saying that makes me feel dirty all over.

"I can pretty much understand his point though. In the real world, one should apply high praise to MS for being able to get even a single WinMobile device into customers hands, as one had not expected people to have as little self respect as it takes to endure Windows on their phone as well."

Yes, I should immediately slate all past, present and future Microsoft products because Windows ME was shit. Come on then, oh sage - what should I have on my desktop? Linux? Well guess what. I do! MacOS, perhaps? No thanks, I like to be able to run stuff.

Your post comes across to me as less like a reasoned critique of Windows Mobile and more like an anti-MS bandwagon flame. And just for you, I might do the rest of my El Reg surfing for the day from my WinMobile device.

Now, should I use IE Mobile, or Opera Mobile? Wi-Fi or 3G? Onscreen keyboard, letter recogniser, handwriting recogniser, voice recognition or fold out keyboard? Decisions, decisions....

As I said in my previous anti-Apple article: are you guys still so bitter about not getting a reviewer's kit of the iPhone? We get it, you guys don't like Apple. Don't you have more funny Google Earth pictures to show off?

What's the point of stating "$2000 operating costs" as if that is something unique to an iPhone? Other smart phones will be just as much operating costs over a two year period - most will have more. If you have a gripe about being locked into a two year contract, then just say it - don't beat about the bush with hyperbole.

In order to write successfully, you need to have something interesting to write about. I agree with my teacher. Your ramblings aren't interesting, they don't quite have a place on a "news"-site. Do you (or did you, since you seem so strangely iPhone-angry) own an iPhone? Did you try one?

Personally, I own a Nokia E70. I surf quite a bit, open attachments and stuff from mail, but it is pretty useless as far as a phone goes. I bought the iPhone, it does everything that I need, and then some. Couldn't that be the case for others? Is it that you don't understand how to use it?

From the articles as of late, I would suspect the editors of El Reg didn't purchase Apple stock at the opportune time and are involved in an effort to drive the price down by using "Fluff" stories in an attempt to buy low.

If this theory isn't the case, that means The Register has turned into another crappy internet rag and will soon leave this and many other readers bookmarks. Too bad. It used to be a good read.

My wife and I have iPhone and we intend to get several more for our small medical business. While a techie may find many faults, a physician finds nothing but joy. Finally: a smartphone that is, a browser that works, and lots of other functions that really do. No complaints here!

That pretty much sums it up. Of the eight people in my office, only one uses a smartphone. The rest of us have anything from a 2 1/2 year old Moto to a year old Nokia. AT&T sells, I think, 2 of them. Verizon has three, Sprint/Nextel has a few, but a crap network.

We don't have the top end Nokias or Sony-Ericssons.

Moto's crap, Nokia's crap, S-E is crap, LG is crap, Samsung is crap It's all a matter of picking the best of the worst. Apple just joined the crew, they didn't redefine anything. I read an article hear where they interviewed a 17 year old that had three phones. 17? Three? That's who bought the iPhone. People with more dollars than sense. And frequently, those are the same people who buy phones like the Crackberry, the Treo or WM phones. Just gotta have the neatest technology.

What's the best phone for under $75. All it has to have is GSM, be a clamshell, Bluetooth and MP3 ringtones. Not that I buy the ringtones, I rip them or edit them.

I see only one masthead ad for "security", and that doesn't look of interest to the fanboiz with low self-esteem. As for the original article, where are the links to undertakers and funeral parlors?

Seems the problem is not El Reg editorial, but El Reg sales inability to leverage it.

>>the iPhone. The fastest selling phone in history.

And Vista was probably the fastest selling Operating System in history. Do you really want to compare your darling Apple product to Windows Vista?

Oh, and by the way, its only the fastest selling by virtue of the many millions spent hyping it. I'm not sure thats actually something to be proud of.

Oxo may want to invest in this newfangled gas heating to replace the slaves stoking the hypocaust - automatic ignition has been commonplace in central heating boilers for decades....

You first state that every analyst ever, was pounding on apple to release this "seminal" convergence device, then go on to state that gps phones don't work as well as gps devices...

Not only are you reversing your earlier argument about the iPod situation at apple, but your also dead wrong. My previous phone to the iphone that i am typing this on (as well as registered as a user on your site) was a audiovox vx6700, and the ONLY thing that phone did well was when i installed tomtom on it. I have used a tomtom 910 and the experience was perfect. It blew as a phone though, crashing on phone calls if you had a real web pafe open in mobile ie or had run more than just that and tomtom since its last reboot.

This piece to me smells a bit like flaim bait.

It's not that the iPhone is crap - cause from what I've read and can assume it's not.

The point is that compared to the stupidly high price, lock-ins and hype it's very bad value for money on the technical front. Suprised that this assessment is being made on a IT / Technical news website?

Yes, i'm sure it's a great phone for some people. Then again so are other low-end handsets. The point is that other than a decent UI it has nothing that other cheap 'smartphone' handsets have and actual has a lot less.

Again, nothing technically wrong with the iPhone - but it's not 'revolutionary' - it's a very, very expensive, nice looking, low-end smartphone. You just wouldn't get HTC or Nokia putting the same price tag or hype on something that is so low-tech compared to the rest of the market. (3G, 3rd party app support, decent MP camera, multiple inputs, removable battery, GPS etc - see the Nokia N95 or the coming up HTC Kaiser - both cheaper with less hype!)

Kudos to Apple, they have balls to do it - mass market will ensure that they make a profit on it. However on a IT / Technical angle it really does suck in the value for money and features remit.

1. You said: "Most mobiles have the potential to play music adequately these days - and some, particularly Sony Ericsson's handsets, do it very well."

Have you ever USED a Sony Ericsson Walkman phone? I own one and all I can say is that no iPod I've ever used has told me "Playback Failed" nor filled my ears with electronic noise (pops, buzzes, screeches) between tracks. Walkman phones are pathetic as MP3 players ... not even as good as an iPod shuffle.

2. What's your evidence that a significant percentage of iPhones have been returned? Without any, your innuendo is the very definition of slimy journalism.

Baiting apple fanbois hasn't worked here. The most vitriolic comments are coming from MS drones. As a pleased user of Apple products, I resent being lumped into a general "fanatic" group. Bottom line, some products are good for some people, and other products are better for other people. Be glad you have choices, knowing that alternatives, no matter who comes up with them, provide impetus for improvement in companies that otherwise become complacent due to their market dominance.

Marketing people, high-school kids, hairdressers, makeup artists, consumer journalists, ... groups of people with little understanding of what makes technology useful, and even less knowledge of how technology works.

I mean, these folks still give Apple passing grades -- indeed still purchase Apple battery operated products, when all and sundry know that these things have to go back to Apple (with a cheque for a substantial amount) one to tow months after the warranty runs out.

I mean ... how flat can a person's learning curve be?

And so this article has. Missed the point. Completely.

I bought a first generation iPod when it came out, for a few simple reasons, the major of which was that it actually worked. Both the Creative and Sony thingy I had were examples of how to irritate people with technology. So was just about anything else on the market.

I live in Belgium, so I can't buy an iPhone right now. If I could, I would. Why? Because from the reviews and from playing with one (hurray for having American friends), I suspect it will be exactly the same thing as the iPod - only now for phones. A cell phone that works.

I know my way around technology, and I've got experience with quite a few cell phones. From the phones I owned and the ones various friends and family members put into my hands in despair, hoping I could find some arcane option in the user interface to make their phone do the thing they hoped for. I now own a Motorola RAZR which came closest to the things I wanted in a phone but in the end is a horror to work with.

Yes, the iPhone has good looks and that is important to me (and I bet for a ton of other people). But the key is that I simply want a phone that is intuitive and that actually works.

And that it has to be Apple that delivers the radical new concept of a working phone honestly is a disgrace to all of the other players in the field.

are returning their phones in droves. See here:

http://yahoo.usatoday.com/tech/wireless/phones/2007-07-12-iphone_N.htm?csp=1

Apparently high end phones are the province

of your road warriors this is not one of those

and worst of all you have to pay for internet

to get 3gd service which is mostly a waste

as mostly people use it to listen to music

and talk to other people with.

Mobile data services just aren't that compelling. That's pure genius, Andrew! I anxiously await the next installment of this fabulous web serial "If We All Still Lived in 1989". I'm on the edge of my seat, lad.

Pure beat poetry, I love it :)

Isn't it funny that when Nokia release a phone, because thats all the iPHONE is, you don't have hundreds of Nokia fanboys arguing how its going to change the world.

"Marketing people, high-school kids, hairdressers, makeup artists, consumer journalists, ... groups of people with little understanding of what makes technology useful, and even less knowledge of how technology works."

Love it. Making stuff that average people (well, wankers, homosexuals and children, apparently, but we'll try to look past that) can actually use is contemptible!

God, when I think of those, uh, hairdressers prancing around with their iPhones, I just get so mad!

Real men know that "what makes technology useful" is forcing the user to work on technology's terms. Exposing functionality with good UI design is just so, well, gay.

They also invented a two-button mouse which makes it impossible to press both buttons at once. And a CD drawer that can't be opened if the batteries in your bluetooth keyboard die.

The only thing I like about Apple design, beyond visual aesthetics, is the MacPro case internals - great work. The rest is form for the sake of function.

And I'm a mac boi.

"The only thing I like about Apple design, beyond visual aesthetics, is the MacPro case internals - great work. The rest is form for the sake of function."

You do realise that this means the precise opposite of what you intended, right?

MS water boy translation: We'll wait until MS does a half ass copy of it 3-10 years from now & talk about how cool & original it is. It will be colored a shit brown & be the size of a brick. It will be bloated & have thousands of ways of doing the same thing. It will have all kinds of wonderful useful features that I aaaaa don't really need or use but I will constantly bring them up & try to tell you how great they are. Or it will be really inexpensive & a cheap piece of shit with a 90 day warranty & I will compare it to something of better quality & with more hardware features & say how expensive the other guys product is. I will of course call anybody that disagrees with me or is happy with a competing product a fanboy, zealot or other vulgar name. I really can't put together a coherent argument so I resort to name calling. It's easier that way & my girlfriend Rosie Palm & her five sisters just love me for it!!! I have to go now my mom is telling me it's time for dinner. Besides I have a date with Rosie!!! We're going out for my 35th birthday!!! She prefers Jergen's Lotion, by the way. Ta!!!

"Baiting apple fanbois hasn't worked here. The most vitriolic comments are coming from MS drones."

Yeah, right:

"As evidence of your biased claims against the iPhone (...)"

"This article sounds like it's comming from someone trying hard to shake the embarresment of shitcanning the iphone before it was released"

"So before you go spouting your mouth off about a phone you've probably never seen or held, maybe you should actually spend some time with one."

"(...) how one of the Reg's own writers and they tech guy weren't impressed with it (hardly unbiased journalism) (...)"

"Hey Andrew, maybe writing in El Reg isn't your typical “gift” from the sky. Your article is as pointless as most “rants” written on behalf of El Reg about the iPhone. Absolutely pointless."

" (...) The Register has turned into another crappy internet rag (...)"

" (...) your innuendo is the very definition of slimy journalism"

While we get the real humble attitude here:

"And that it has to be Apple that delivers the radical new concept of a working phone honestly is a disgrace to all of the other players in the field"

I love this one,

"Shame you mentioned the iPhone, I think with a bit of thinking you could have used another example just to avoid the distress you have caused to the Apple fanbase."

in connection with this one:

"From a large proportion of the comments i've seen from people who like Apple products here i've seen them both acknowledge strengths and weaknesses of Apple products. I do not see the same from those who prefer Windows products."

Someone here posted how he tries to cross an Apple fanatic with a Scientologist to get a real asshole. Reading the last two you might also want to try a Wikipedian. I really wonder how many of them use Apple hardware.

I like my Treo, but where is the progress? Why does my browser barf on a large regular web page, and why do some cause the entire phone to reboot? Why have there been no OS or browser updates for MY phone in the 3 years I've owned it? (Please don't tell me to buy a new phone, this one was more than I should have spent in the first place). The supported tool chain for producing apps for my phone seems to be almost non-existent, although there IS a nice open-source set of tools, if I spend enough time setting it up. Java exists for my phone, but it's a bit flaky (as in, crash the phone to requiring a reset). It feels to me like the corporate owners of Palm and then Handspring veiwed it as a one-time upfront cash investment and haven't invested in moving it forward with the changing times. It still does what I bought it for (makes calls and keeps my calendar and alarms, and miscellaneous bits of information), but what is the tangible path to the future (or the multitasking present)?

Before someone flames me for being an Apple fanboi or too stupid to know how to use my phone or an open-source computer, I'm a girl, I have built a small Beowulf cluster for parallel processing applications and I know how to program a molecular dynamics simulation in Fortran or C, script in Perl and Python, and know full well that rm -rf * is only to be used as a nuclear option. I have enough things to keep me busy thinking about than to fsck around with my phone--I just want it to work, and the information I get from the web on my phone to be accessible. The iPhone is attractive to me for that reason, and as soon as I can program an app that runs "off-network" for it (and sell a kidney to get the money for it) and they start making it for someone other than ATT (the death star), I will get one(if my husband says its OK). Not because I am a mindless fangirl who believes media drooling, but because, like my Mac laptop, it is likely to just work most of the time.

Um, MS already have a platform out, and have done for a while.

I believe it's the 3rd most popular mobile OS in the word, behind Symbian (Nokia, Sony Ericcson) and Linux (Moto, DoCoMo), with RIM (Blackberry) and PalmSource (PalmOS) with less market share.

Well done on a cracking post other than that minor detail...

I don't know why this degenerated into a iPhone versus Windoze flamewar. The article was a bit biased, obviously he REALLY didn't like the iPhone, but he gives good reasons why he doesn't like the phone (actually using it as a phone is clunky, and texting is difficult), along with a bunch of crap reasons (he doesn't use a phone browser anyway, therefore it's supposedly useless, etc etc...). Two points:

The article doesn't compare the iPhone to Windows Mobiles.. at the very end he says it can compete with them and Blackberries, and that's it! The Treo comparison he links to, they run Palm OS, NOT Windows, so even the link doesn't mention Windows. Some "Wintel bias" that Apple fanatics like to bring up simply does not apply... he simply doesn't like the phone!

Second, the iPhone is NOT a smartphone. It's a very expensive and fancy phone with a nice browser. A smartphone by definition allows the addition of 3rd party software, which the iPhone does not.

The way that Apple got the labels to make their music available in iTunes was actually to pitch it as a "Mac-only" store, thus a very small risk to the music business. Only after the iTunes store demonstrated viability as a business, was Apple able to convince the labels to license their music to sell on Windows. And the labels are thrilled to license their music to any retailer on the same terms - they have no desire at all for Apple to be the dominant online music retailer. If you could launch a viable competitor to iTunes, the music labels would license you their inventory on the same terms in a heartbeat, just to create more competition in the distribution channels.

If Apple had tried to pitch itself as the "soon to be dominant online music retailer" that would have convinced the music labels to do pretty much anything to keep that from happening. The music industry has plenty of experience with companies (e.g. ClearChannel, BDS) that become dominant and make their lives difficult, so they'd like to avoid that in the future.

Steven, yes I know. It used to be Windows Mobile. That's what MS does when something fails repackage it under another name & remarket the product. Remember the Janus DRM, Plays For Sure, Zune market Place. MS has nothing like the iPhone. WinCE devices are a total flop in the market & in usability. My guess is there next phone which they will start talking about soon will sport a lot of the look & feel of the iPhone. It will take them another 3 years to get to market & they will tell you how they revolutionized the interface on the phone. It will be sluggish & bloated. Don't like the iPhone. Fine. I think if the iPhone had a MS logo on it these people that hate with everything in their souls (kind of sad really) would be telling you what an innovative piece of tech it is & how it will change the world!!! Want proof look how all the waterboys drooled over "Surface." Which is essentially a kiosk. The truth is MS makes 80% of it's money from OEMs. They can't compete in the consumer electronics space. If they can't leverage the OS they can't compete. They have only lost money there. The Xbox is a loss leader & has a 33% hardware failure rate. Here is a balanced review of the iPhone. I'm sure the water boys will have issues with it.

http://www.informationweek.com/news/showArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=1XOBTV3C0T1MYQSNDLRCKH0CJUNN2JVN?articleID=201200060

WinCE devices & the iPhone:

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/C866B1E6-BF99-43D4-A719-3AC4D347667A.html

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q1.07/50755EA6-A759-42FD-84ED-EBB5A060AF16.html

Delusional, Head-up-their-arse-itis, livimg in Apple Fantasyland and flinging torts instead of facts is the way the Apple Sheeple cope with well written and factual article on the world of Stevie Jobs bullshit.

the Pogues, Levys and Mossbergs, and a new crop of radio Apple Whores like Leo Laporte are all blatant bought off media Apple promoters. Whether they get cash, freebees or special favors from Cupertino, they all do the same - act like shameless and obvious street Whores for P.T. Barnum Stevie Gods and the Apple snow job.

Watching Stevie and Apple go through their product antics is like going to a cheap carnival and being taken in by the best "flim-flam" side-show huckster. And the the Pogues, Levys and Mossbergs of the world? Their the willing accomplices and NOTHING they say or write should be taken for other then the bribed bullshit it is.

Still don't get your point.

It's not about OS, but to come back to you WM is hardly a flop. It has a bigger market share than Blackberry and PalmSource. It's no where near as popular as Symbian (my mobile OS of choice) - but the fact is that you're wrong. WM is a pretty good OS for business users and has been around a fair while.

I won't start on comparisons between OS manufactuer's - they've all copied off competitors. (Mac, Windows, Linux - all copied off each other)

The innovation argument doesn't hold water.

Consumer Electronics? I'd say the Xbox is doing pretty well, and making Sony crap their pants to be honest. MSN Messenger, OS for tablets, Various games, hardware such as webcams, mice, keyboards etc.

Compared with Apple who have launched a MP3 player and now recently a phone it's a pretty bold comparison you're making there.

Is that a metacomment?

Wow!

Hey Webbo ... ever thought about Anger Management?

Steven,

What kind of profit is MS making from the Windows Mobile platform?

Do most people like to use the features on their phones?

What kind of profit is MS making on the Xbox?

What kind of profit is MS making on Zune & it's music initiatives?

How is MSN doing compared to Google, Yahoo?

They have a small percentage of the mobile Phone market & an even smaller percentage of the Smartphone market.

Symbian has the lions share. Especially on the high end (Business users).

Apple constantly engineers & updates hardware.

They also sell servers Xserve & Xserve raid. They have an array of professional as well as consumer software. Final Cut Pro, Shake, Motion, Aperture, DVD Studio Pro, The iLife Suite. Keynote, Pages, SWOP certified Monitors, wireless routers, etc. Yeah they built an MP3 player but an MP3 player that no one else had built, they also built the iTunes store. Other various hardware. There is AppleTV, The iPhone & the list will get longer. No, everything doesn't originate from Apple but, plenty of ideas have, that have trickled down to other platforms. They hardly just make MP3 players & that's it. Is everything they make perfect. Nope. Nothing is. They do make quality, well integrated, stable products. Technology (like most things that have been invented) is a progression of ideas. Others have done work so that someone else will carry the concepts further or to a different place. Tell me where are the advances in the GUI with MS at the helm? The Next OS & OS2 were much more advanced OS's before Windows 95 even hit the street.

The interface on the iPhone is a breath of fresh air. It's pretty solid 1.0 release & it will get better. Is it for everybody, No. What is? The Symbian OS is Multi-Threaded, The iPhone OS is multi threaded with technology such as Core Graphics, Core Video & Core Audio. Is Windows Mobile? The underlying Code for OSX is open the GUI isn't. Just about everything from MS is proprietary. Xerox developed some GUI conventions but they didn't invent everything. The idea of a GUI was around before Xerox, also. You did not address the quality of the products you mentioned. Yes, the Mice do work well. The extended warranty on the Xbox is because of the high failure rate. If Apple had a 33% failure rate on anything they would never here the end of it. As it is now that get crucified by the PC press over every little issue, some deserved, some bordering on the ridiculous. Mostly from people who have never touched an Apple product in any way shape or form. There are irrational people on both sides of the aisle. That was the point of my first post. I use both platforms. I prefer one over the other. There are no bold statements being made. Since market share seems to be important to MS defenders & not profit...How much market share do any of the products you mentioned have in their respective categories? How many of them even turn a profit?

The difference between MS and Apple is that MS don't pretend to be a "save the trees" "lets help the people, "power to the people, fight the man" company. Apple is corporate through and through, second only to Sony in proprietry.

MS knows its an evil empire and doesn't try PR differently.

"second only to Sony in proprietry."

How so? Just because you repeat the MS water boy talking points doesn't make it true. MS throws the word innovative around...when exactly did that ever happen in any way shape or form? Almost all of MS initiatives & file formats/protocols are proprietary. So how exactly, because the their OS only runs on there hardware? Instead of the same OS on basically the same hardware with a different name slapped on the front of it?

"How so? Just because you repeat the MS water boy talking points doesn't make it true."

Use your brain and figure it out.

"MS throws the word innovative around...when exactly did that ever happen in any way shape or form?"

Who cares. I don't need MS to be innovative, I need their stuff to work in business. Which it does.

"So how exactly, because the their OS only runs on there hardware? Instead of the same OS on basically the same hardware with a different name slapped on the front of it?"

In English please...

Stick OS-Whatever on non-Apple hardware. Go to Apple and tell them you did this. Wait for the lawyers.

Some may consider this an admission that their software is not up to the job and will only run on specific hardware.

"same OS on basically the same hardware with a different name slapped on the front of it". If I understand you correctly what you are saying is "all PCs are exactly the same, only the badge on the front is different"

Thats a silly statement. Even Macs have different hardware.

Just as I thought...Nothing.

In Spanish:

Nada

Use your brain & actually right a rebuttal.

Sony:

see: betamax, memory stick, HD, etc, etc, etc

Apple:

see "OUR HARDWARE ONLY", iTunes, etc, etc, etc

Besides Mac-OS ships with music making and photo bloatware

iTunes is cross platform.

Our Hardware only- Why do you care, really?

Etc. - more bullshit to make it appear as if you know what you are talking about. I guess this scores you points with the waterboy crowd.

The truth is that OSX leverages more open tech. than Windows.

Windows & just about anything MS related is proprietary.

"Besides Mac-OS ships with music making and photo bloatware"

How would you know? You haven't got a clue. I'll bet plenty of people find this software useful. Quick call me a name! If you don't want the iLife suite on your computer just drag the application folder to the trash "poof" it's gone. Please don't try to compare something that may be of use to people to actual Bloated Crapware that ships with Windows. Like I said you got nothing. etc., etc., etc.

http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/RDM.Tech.Q3.07/28CE05EF-2E0F-4912-A62A-CBAB41E0D305.html

Well, it sounds like Mr. Orlowski is peeved that he didn't get his free review iPhone from Apple. Whatever. You know what? It's a great device. Sure, Apple is guilty of hyping it up. Still, they never said it would slice bread, or make chicks want to date you. It does, however, do everything its been advertised to do, and it does better than any other device out there.

Sure, there's things that can be improved upon. Thankfully, there will be software upgrades.But I've used a lot of smartphones, and none of them are as nice as the iPhone. If it's not your cup of tea, why continue to flog it? Oh, that's right, because it's a hot product and just writing about it will get you a couple of thousand page views.

Can anyone say "Coat tails"?